Consumer Product Safety Comm. to discuss proposed SawStop technology safety rule

[Dave Hall]

Which of these items doubled or tripled the cost of a lower end version of the equipment they were put onto? Which of these mandates effectively eliminated the lower end of the product catagory to which they were mandated? I see no way to continue to sell $100 tablesaws if a Sawstop device had to be incorporated. His patents on similar technology for bandsaws, CMS, and other whirling woodworking equipment would similarly eliminate the low end of those markets as well (in my opinion of course). When you add up the costs of airbags, seatbelts, cat converters, crumple zones, padded dashes, etc., etc., etc. you do in fact add substantially to the cost of a car, but I doubt that 1/2 or so of the cost of the lowest end vehicle out there is made up of all of these mandated items combined, let alone any one of them - and I believe that the automobile is one of the more regulated and safety mandated consumer products around. BTW I can buy medicine in bottles without childproof caps but few if any manufacturers will use them for over the counter medications.

Dave Hall

[bremen68]

I stopped over at the saw stop site and took a look at their products. Interesting little gizmo, expensive, but very interesting.

I think if you're looking for an absolutely safe saw (from the blade anyway) this puppy just might be the ticket... Though I didn't see saftey bumpers on the corners, soft side cushions on the case, or an airbag type appliance incase of kick backs. And WHAT ABOUT THOSE BLASTED SPINTERS??

Ok I'll be serious for a moment, well as serious as I can be anyway... It looks like somebody put a lot of thought into this and if it works as claimed will save many a person from having to answer questions from their grandkids about why they have to take their shoes off to count to ten. However, with all new technology it's expensive. And anytime you ask a typical woodworker to lay out more cash...Well, let's just say it's not a good thing and leave it at that.

As for mandating that it be installed on all saws. That's an entirely different thing. Now you're encroaching on our rights to injure and maim ourselves in creative and painful ways as we see fit. I agree with everybody above who says "if it's that good a system, it will sell it's self and everybody will install it" The price will come down and like also stated above it will be just like any other feature "standard" on the saws.

Trying to mandate something in the US does tend to raise most folks hackles, we're a bit stiff necked about things when somebody comes up and says "This is how you're gonna do this, by the way you don't have a choice". Even if it's for our own good, we tend to be stuborn types.

I am kinda curious about a few technical aspects of the system. Not everybody keeps their shop in absolute perfect condition, some aren't weather tight, some are damp basements... How does this system handle adverse conditions. If it's relying on monitoring an electrical current through the blade will rust effect it?

What about nails? (I realize we should inspect our wood etc, but it does happen) Will hitting a nail in a piece of wood cause the safety to trip? I'm thinking hitting metal will cause a rather abrupt spike in conductivity and there by blow the stop. A block of aluminum hitting a spinning blade means that blade is toast, at $70 a reload plus $50 (or more) for a new blade, that's an expensive mistake. Does the saw function if you don't reload the cartridge?

For industry I'm thinking they're doomed to have to incorporate it. Insurance companies will make it happen if nobody else does. As with all things it will eventually trickle down to consumer level products. But just like the gaurds that are supposed to be on our saws now, how many are actually in place? I think that that will be the fate of this device as well for most of them.

My humbe two pennies worth of rambling... Take it as you will. :-)

[Dave Hall]

I have to answer yes to that question. There was and still is a simple government mandate that would in fact reduce these medical conditions substantially. Outlaw red meat. Outlaw white bread. Outlaw refined sugar. It would be fairly simple to identify those food items that contribute the most to an unhealthy diet and simply outlaw those items. Death rates would drop. Physical (as opposed to mental) health would improve. Natrural life expectancy would probably soar. Life would suck.

It could be taken a little further by mandating limited portion sizes in restaurants and limiting all patrons to one entree. I guess we could go whole hog and if someone invented and patented the safe food (ala soylent green maybe) mandate that all meals must incorporate this food item.

Dave Hall

[Upscale]

Try reading into the response a little more.

"Effectively and selectively" suggests "what if" it could be done simply and easily. You've posted three foods that have a wide distribution and eliminating them "effectively and selectively" could not be done easily.

And as an aside, if the elimination of those three foods from your diet means that your life would suck, then you lead an extremely limited, one-sided life.

[CW]

Why should I think that you believe differently than the views you have been expressing? Are you now saying that you are a liar?

[Upscale]

Fuck off and get a life. At this point you're just trying to stir up an argument.

[Joe Bemier]

Lets hope so...

Good day!

[Upscale]

Actually, I probably like steak better than you do. If you ever visit Toronto, I'd be happy to take you out to my favourite steak house and feed you some. :)

Shrimp cocktail, whiskey sour, rib steak, rare, grilled mushrooms in the side. In fact, I'll be eating and drinking all those things tomorrow evening.

[Dave Bugg]

Is that a Gloat? :-)

[bf]

Wow, I don't agree with that scary rating. I think the bandsaw is the safest saw to use. The cutting motion is down, no risk of kick back. Basically, all you have to do is pay attention that you don't move your hand into the blade.. Don't see it as any scarier than a scroll saw.

The drill press is most likely to injure you? How? Unless a bit gets caught in a piece of wood and spins around, how are you going to get hurt on a drill press? Obviously, like the bandsaw, I assume you pay attention and don't put your hand under the bit.

[bf]

Yes, another poster said replacement cartirages cost 70-90 each. I imagine after the first fire (whether it was legit or not), most consumers aren't going to cough up that much money to buy a replacement cartridge. I know I wouldn't. Maybe that makes me reckless, but I'm being honest. For example, I spent an entire afternoon trying to adjust the splitter/blade guard that came with my contractors saw.. never could get it to work right so I just tossed it in frustration. At the time, I said I'd buy an aftermarket one. But I started making stuff, and 16 years later I still haven't bought one.

[Upscale]

Closer to a self-indulgent pig out if I can get through it. These last few years see me bringing sections of the meal home in a doggy bag. It maybe a piece of cold steak the next day, but most of the taste is still there. One of the few benefits of getting older is that I can't eat near as much, so when I get my hands on something good, it usually lasts a little longer. I've also noticed that I'm more interested in quality these days, not bulk.

[George Shouse]

Shut down Baskin Robbins - shut down McDonalds - no more McCallan's 18 year old

Tune in every morning to government run calisthenics TV

[gfretwell]

I bet the real "danger saw" is the hand held circular saw (AKA skilsaw) but I bet chan saws actually cause more accidents. They just get loaded in with logger injuries and not construction injuries.

[CW]

I would appear that I have made you see yourself for what you are. Don't like it,eh?

[Jesse R Strawbridge]

The drill press is most likely to injure because it is taken for granted too often. Not likely to be too bad but painful.

Jess.S

[Upscale]

No dummy, you view me for what your paranoia about government has warped you into thinking.

I've been arguing the way I have because I feel that eliminating a good deal of pain and injury is more important than worrying about government involvement. For some reason, your paranoia about government transformed that into my being greedy.

I'm concerned about people suffering. You feel that personal choice is more important than people suffering. Who is the greedy one here?

[Larry Blanchard]

Let's see. We outlawed booze and got the Mafia. We outlawed drugs and got the Columbian Cartel (and a few others). I wonder what the outcome of outlawing something else that people want will be?

Actually, I can probably just wait and see what happens with tobacco :-).

[Dave Hall]

Damn, now that is truly a reason to visit Toronto ;-)

Now you're just making me hungry - Just change the whiskey to a non-alcholic beverage and make the steak medium and place my order in abstentia.

Dave Hall

[CW]

So, you know what is best for everyone right? You running for god next election?

[Upscale]

For a troll, you're remarkably inept.