Considering Used Tools

[krw]

Sure. Win or lose.

[Bill]

I could look past the repaired rust spots in the table, but the several deeper 1/4"-3/8" wide scrapes across the top of the table (caused by what I haven't a clue) left me feeling like I could do better. Someone pushing large pieces through the saw might not have their work affected, but I can already hear myself grumbling when my smaller work might get stuck in some of the those scrapes. I appreciate better now why "mirror finish" is a standard.

The thing about estate auctions is that I get the impression I'm the 25+ person to have looked things over, and that most "interesting" things (like hand planes, for example), that weren't nailed down was already been picked up. There was still a "ton of" stuff. A whole drawer full (and I mean full!) of screwdrivers--hardly any sockets or wrenches. Few, if any, power hand tools or bits. Go figure.

Bill

[Sonny]

Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here, seems to indicate a garage sale type venue.

Despite wide scrapes (?) in the table saw top, don't underestimate that saw. If the sale is, in fact, a garage sale, those scrapes are a bargaining advantage for you. A gouge, to me, is/may be different than a severe scrape, as for as affecting cutting results. What is the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top? Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and at what greater cost (maybe)?

At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools, especially after an onsite inspection.

The scrapes/gouges: Someone accidently gouged it with a router or "skilsaw" when using it as a work bench? If there is a burr(s) sticking up, file and/or sand it down, maybe?

Sonny

[Bill]

I'll precede my comments with --

Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here, seems to indicate a garage sale type venue.

--It's an auction held by a company, but will be held at the site of the shop. Upon my request, they let me view the TS early. If they are wise they should remove everything from the shop before the auction starts and move it out to the yard/driveway.

Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and at what greater cost (maybe)?

--I do not doubt that the saw is worth $400-500. My plan was to buy the Grizzly G0690 (~$1200), so I'm not getting sticker shock. If you happen to have read another thread I started, then you may know have been arranging the details of the

240v wiring now. I think that your assessment that someone might have gouged it with a skilsaw is right on. In fact. they (more than) scratched it up completely--probably using it as a workbench as you mentioned. BTW, in view of the confined work area of this shop, that makes the most sense. You are insightful, Sonny! Anyway, the tabletop is unsightful. Having a new tabletop on the saw would change my outlook on it. I still have time to look into that possibility. I do not anticipate that this option is viable but I'm considering it now.

At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools, especially after an onsite inspection. --Don't give me too much credit, I'm a relative newbe buying my first and, most-likely, last TS. I removed the throat plate insert to see what kind of splitter, if any, might be present. There was piece of plastic perhaps

1" by 2", with a large vee on the end in there. The saw is a Delta Unisaw Platinum Edition. Can anyone describe how that mechanism "works"? This saw had a "dust bag" connected at the bottom (I presume a DC attached there may not be quite as effective as on some more modern saws).

--So for another $600 (twice the price), I could get a saw with a riving knife, having a top with a mirrror finish, probably better dust collection, simpler delivery to my house, and a warrantee. The Delta saw did sound great (I haven't heard a Grizzly). The Delta TS did not appear to have a fine adjustment mechanism on it's Beisemeyer fence (surely it's an older model ~15 years).

--Your post was helpful. As always, thank you for helping me think!!

Bill

[Bill]

What is the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top?

I checked on the replacement cost of the top--$639.95 (S&H, extra). If this was a contest my guess would have been Really close. That's why I think I have to pass. But I may go watch the auction just in case...

Bill

[dadiOH]

It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional.

[Sonny]

I didn't realize a new top was so expensive. Mike's Tools lists for $579.... plus whatever S&H to your area.

Consider this option, maybe: Since you'll go watch the bidding and even with a defected top, set a limit of (say) $200, bid up to that amount and no more. Don't respond to (accept) the auctioneer's opening asking amount, especially if it's unreasonable high. If someone does accept the opening asking amount, then just play it by ear. That initial bidder is most likely an impulse buyer. By not responding to the auctioneer's opening asking amount, he'll be forced to lower the starting asking amount. If no bidders respond immediately to the auctioneer's initial asking, a bidder may announce (offer) his own starting bid, usually much lower than the auctioneer's initial asking. You don't have to accept the auctioneer's initial asking amount. He simply wants to start as high as he can. The idea is for the smart bidder to control the bidding, not the auctioneer. Don't exceed your spending limit. Don't get excited and become an impulse buyer.

Prior to the saw bidding, observe bidding on other items. This will give a idea of what kind of crowd is bidding, i.e., knowledgeable bidders or impulse buyers, and how much money they are willing to spend (is their spending/bidding reasonable to the value of items or are they spending too much for items). Take note of a bidder who flashes his money or talks money, prior to bidding... don't get into a bidding war with this type of impulse buyer/braggart. Again, set your spending limit and don't exceed that limit.

Sonny

Sonny

[Bill]

Thank you. Your suggestion is darn close to what I had in mind.

I confess that I'm not the best auction bidder. Sometimes I forget and feel like I'm in some sort of competition--which it is, but of course you know that the goal is not to win the competition at any cost! I've won a few I should have let go of... You proffered good advice!

Bill

[Bill]

Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to see how much the added friction affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.

Bill

[dadiOH]

Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase it. IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters unless you have glued sand paper to it :)

[Bill]

I don't believe I agree that an abundance of scratches would *decrease* friction at all. To the touch, they create a rougher surface, not a smooother one. A FILE provides a self-evident contradiction.

Bill

IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters

See example above.

[Josepi]

This is also a common misconception about wide tires. (then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area)

Bill

IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters

See example above.

[Scott Lurndal]

If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it can be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. Gouges in the surface, so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the reduced surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce friction.

scott

[Bill]

We are talking about scratches, not like the indentations of a corrugated hand plane. Think of the corners at the top of a scratch more like a scraper (and pieces of wood do not tend to be perfectly flat either, especilly near the ends).

A little wax may help in the best or the worst case. I've written everything I know about this.

Best, Bill

[krw]

Wide tires increase the lateral friction, useful for cornering. For a given air pressure, pick your dimension of interest and the other falls out.

[Josepi]

More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much better.

[Puckdropper]

"Bill" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

*snip*

If the scratches aren't very deep, perhaps you could have a local company mill the top. That would restore your flat top, at the risk of a couple pounds of iron.

I've got no idea how much it would cost, it may be only marginally cheaper than replacing it.

Puckdropper

[Robatoy]

My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00. Live with the scratches because milling the tops and wings(need to be done at the same time, really) is way more work and expense than what that saw deserves.

[Sonny]

For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional.

dadiOH

I agree with both above. I still think the saw is worth at least $600 (*single phase motor). Despite the poor quality of the picture, the saw's top (or any other aspect) doesn't look bad. The scrapes or gouges can't be that bad, or there be that many, as to make the saw disfunctional, even with small pieces of wood. The scrapes or gouges have to be by accident... no woodworker would repeatedly or seriously damage their Unisaw and unless the saw was sabotaged, it has to still be in good or very reasonable shape (gouging the top is not the way to sabotage a saw, if one had a mind to). I can't imagine those scrapes or gouges are so serious that some minor filing of burrs (if applicable), or the like, can't render the top into some very good shape for normal use. Just because it may look unsightly, doesn't make it useless or problematic. The pictures just don't indicate the need for major repair, in order for the saw to function totally, and the onsite inspection report isn't convincing that the top has horrible damage, needing major repair. If the top was warped, then that would be serious.

Sonny

[keithw86]

Wrong.

...

it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of the area changes.