Considering Used Tools

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That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert cutter head. Great tool.
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/935
I thought you might enjoy this review (written by someone who made the substitution). Bill
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I arranged a preview of the TS today at the auction site today. I could look past the repaired rust spots in the table, but the several deeper 1/4"-3/8" wide scrapes across the top of the table (caused by what I haven't a clue) left me feeling like I could do better. Someone pushing large pieces through the saw might not have their work affected, but I can already hear myself grumbling when my smaller work might get stuck in some of the those scrapes. I appreciate better now why "mirror finish" is a standard.
The thing about estate auctions is that I get the impression I'm the 25+ person to have looked things over, and that most "interesting" things (like hand planes, for example), that weren't nailed down was already been picked up. There was still a "ton of" stuff. A whole drawer full (and I mean full!) of screwdrivers--hardly any sockets or wrenches. Few, if any, power hand tools or bits. Go figure.
Bill
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Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here, seems to indicate a garage sale type venue.
Despite wide scrapes (?) in the table saw top, don't underestimate that saw. If the sale is, in fact, a garage sale, those scrapes are a bargaining advantage for you. A gouge, to me, is/may be different than a severe scrape, as for as affecting cutting results. What is the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top? Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and at what greater cost (maybe)?
At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools, especially after an onsite inspection.
The scrapes/gouges: Someone accidently gouged it with a router or "skilsaw" when using it as a work bench? If there is a burr(s) sticking up, file and/or sand it down, maybe?
Sonny
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I'll precede my comments with --
Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here, seems to indicate a garage sale type venue.
--It's an auction held by a company, but will be held at the site of the shop. Upon my request, they let me view the TS early. If they are wise they should remove everything from the shop before the auction starts and move it out to the yard/driveway.
Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and at what greater cost (maybe)?
--I do not doubt that the saw is worth $400-500. My plan was to buy the Grizzly G0690 (~$1200), so I'm not getting sticker shock. If you happen to have read another thread I started, then you may know have been arranging the details of the 240v wiring now. I think that your assessment that someone might have gouged it with a skilsaw is right on. In fact. they (more than) scratched it up completely--probably using it as a workbench as you mentioned. BTW, in view of the confined work area of this shop, that makes the most sense. You are insightful, Sonny! Anyway, the tabletop is unsightful. Having a new tabletop on the saw would change my outlook on it. I still have time to look into that possibility. I do not anticipate that this option is viable but I'm considering it now.
At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools, especially after an onsite inspection. --Don't give me too much credit, I'm a relative newbe buying my first and, most-likely, last TS. I removed the throat plate insert to see what kind of splitter, if any, might be present. There was piece of plastic perhaps 1" by 2", with a large vee on the end in there. The saw is a Delta Unisaw Platinum Edition. Can anyone describe how that mechanism "works"? This saw had a "dust bag" connected at the bottom (I presume a DC attached there may not be quite as effective as on some more modern saws).
--So for another $600 (twice the price), I could get a saw with a riving knife, having a top with a mirrror finish, probably better dust collection, simpler delivery to my house, and a warrantee. The Delta saw did sound great (I haven't heard a Grizzly). The Delta TS did not appear to have a fine adjustment mechanism on it's Beisemeyer fence (surely it's an older model ~15 years).
--Your post was helpful. As always, thank you for helping me think!!
Bill
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What is the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top?
I checked on the replacement cost of the top--$639.95 (S&H, extra). If this was a contest my guess would have been Really close. That's why I think I have to pass. But I may go watch the auction just in case...
Bill
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Bill wrote:

It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional.
--

dadiOH
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Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to see how much the added friction affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.
Bill
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Bill wrote:

Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase it. IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters unless you have glued sand paper to it :)
--

dadiOH
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I don't believe I agree that an abundance of scratches would *decrease* friction at all. To the touch, they create a rougher surface, not a smooother one. A FILE provides a self-evident contradiction.
Bill
IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters

See example above.

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This is also a common misconception about wide tires. (then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area)

IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters

See example above.

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Wide tires increase the lateral friction, useful for cornering. For a given air pressure, pick your dimension of interest and the other falls out.
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More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much better.
However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and you. They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm.... http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/tires/andfriction.html
wrote:

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Wrong.
No, it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of the area changes.
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No time to read the article in the link?
wrote:

Wrong.
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No time to think?

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If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it can be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. Gouges in the surface, so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the reduced surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce friction.
scott
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We are talking about scratches, not like the indentations of a corrugated hand plane. Think of the corners at the top of a scratch more like a scraper (and pieces of wood do not tend to be perfectly flat either, especilly near the ends).
A little wax may help in the best or the worst case. I've written everything I know about this.
Best, Bill
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My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00. Live with the scratches because milling the tops and wings(need to be done at the same time, really) is way more work and expense than what that saw deserves.
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For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully functional.
dadiOH
I agree with both above. I still think the saw is worth at least $600 (*single phase motor). Despite the poor quality of the picture, the saw's top (or any other aspect) doesn't look bad. The scrapes or gouges can't be that bad, or there be that many, as to make the saw disfunctional, even with small pieces of wood. The scrapes or gouges have to be by accident... no woodworker would repeatedly or seriously damage their Unisaw and unless the saw was sabotaged, it has to still be in good or very reasonable shape (gouging the top is not the way to sabotage a saw, if one had a mind to). I can't imagine those scrapes or gouges are so serious that some minor filing of burrs (if applicable), or the like, can't render the top into some very good shape for normal use. Just because it may look unsightly, doesn't make it useless or problematic. The pictures just don't indicate the need for major repair, in order for the saw to function totally, and the onsite inspection report isn't convincing that the top has horrible damage, needing major repair. If the top was warped, then that would be serious.
Sonny
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The scratches looked better today (perhaps someone worked on them a bit before the auction today) but I would access the overall condition of the saw as good to very good, surely not excellent or like new. I figured that for $500 and the hardship of figuring out how to get it home, that it would have been worth it.
This was not an issue as the saw sold for $850 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax).
Incidently the Jet (bench) drill press, with a cabinet support underneath, went for $110 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax) and the Delta 8" jointer went for $225 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax).
I was tempted to bid on the jointer, but I couldn't justify the amount of space that it would take up at this point. I read its owner's manual online last night, and learned a few things.
Lots of stuff at the auction was going real cheap, there was so much of it...boxes and boxes of nails, screws, fasteners, wrenches, sockets, taps--stuff lots of people have, but Mr. West had the resources to store large quanitites of stuff and he evidently took advantage of it. Towards the end, $5 would get you more nails and screws and fasteners than you could carry. For me the question wasn't "Is this a good deal?", it was "Is it worth trying to find a place to store it?" (as virtually all of you surely understand better than I do)!
There were lots (dozens) of old automotive-related antique signs--very few went for less than $100 and several larger ones went for as much as $850 (remember the red winged horse--the Marathon logo?). When I saw antique "wall" thermometers going for $135 to $300 and the "rusty ol' signs" going for $700-800, my hopes of getting a good deal on the TS diminished. A fancy antique gas pump went for $1500 (museum quality) and 2 tire pressure machines (the ones where you set the desired pressure with a crank) went for over $500 each! Those didn't impress me much--and from the way the wife of one of the buyer's rolled her eyes, they didn't impress her that much either).
Not a decent hand plane in sight. Well, there's the price update I promised. I saved you 5 hours in the hot sun (lovely day though)!
Bill
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