Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
Enough current???? Have actually seen this -- in a failure mode of a=20 breaker - ALTAIALFA (a long time ago in a land far away) But it was a=20 handful of failures in thousands of machines. Highly unlikely -- but=20 maybe not impossible. I will leave it to the EE's in the group who might =
want to debate this. I am sure that someone here can do some=20 calculations and dig up some data to prove something. I certainly=20 can't/won't these days.
And if the breaker fails by developing a higher resistance? Actually=20 seen this in a handful of failures out of many thousands of=20 motor/breaker circuits in a manufacturing situation. I was just glad I=20 could pass the analysis to someone competent. Again ALTAIALFA -- QA is=20 probably a lot better and techniques have changed -- so it probably=20 doesn't happen any more...
I am beginning to wish that we had the Chemists equivalent of STP=20 (Standard Temperature and Pressure)
Then we could all say that when we mean when we say "normally" -- which=20 isn't used often enough...
Then we wouldn't debate this stuff unless it was egregious enuff to=20 really rile us up. I am so MAD!!! Cause I saw some of these failures 30=20 years ago and -- IT CAN HAPPEN! I SWEAR! TO DENY IT IS WRONG!!!!
And I swore I would never post on one of these threads. But if a cool=20 head like Robatoy can give at least one shot I will allow myself _once_.
Did I mention I HATE COMPOUND MITER DESIGNS?
I swear by the Red Green payer that I will do this no more. I swear...
OKOK AMT. Breathe deep.
--=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will warm up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the air coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82° as it is when she puts it at 72°.
Its a concept foreign to everyone of my employees! I have locked all thermostats and I still find some set at 80° in the winter and 60° in the summer.
Even after a lengthy and detailed explanation to my wife, she still thinks it warms or cools faster!!
Dave
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We're married to the same woman?
please let me know if you ever come up with a way to explain this to your wife. i need it for my wife also. i have the exact same discussion every winter.
And some thought the testosterone was flowing freely around here of late? We ain't seen nothing yet.
While I don't disagree in general, if the thermostat is located near a heating vent, it may cycle on-off more while the home reaches an equilibrated temperature; not that your wife (or mine for that matter) has thought it through that far.
Cheers, Mike
Oh hell - that's nothin'. Ask anyone of us that live in cold country what the first the wife does when she jumps into the cold car... Reaches across the car and turns the damn blower on full. Can't explain to her that she's making us colder by doing that and she has to wait for the engine to heat up.
I found myself in the same position when I moved several years ago. I just changed the the 4-prong receptacle in the dryer outlet to a 3-prong
20 amp style. Worked like a champ. When I moved, I put the 4-prong receptacle back in the box. As I remember, the circuit was rated at 30 amps.Dave Vermilyea
Then how does it make any difference if the breaker is rated for 1 amp or a billion? If the failure is corrosion of the contacts or something else that causes increased resistance in the contacts it's going to occur on a breaker of any capacity.
The contacts are simply metal touching metal. They may be exactly the same size in breakers with a very wide range of current capacities. What makes the breaker "break" is a mechanism that opens those contacts, not anything having to do with their innate properties.
So? Having a larger breaker would have made no difference.
There is no question that breakers can fail in various ways. The question is whether using a larger one would eliminate the kind of malfunction that you observed, and there is no reason to believe that it would.
Sounds reasonable.
Have to agree with that assessment.
And probably not even a smaller one. Don't know any more -- any more.
As soon as I could I stick to pure logic, and ittsy bittsy things that=20 couldn't pull my fingers off I was happier the motors were happier -- it =
was a win-win.
Packets, bits, bytes, words, core memories, adders -- they were all so=20 much simpler -- and if you hit them with a hammer they did not rotate=20 back at you and eat your finger -- or eat their breakers if you shorted=20 their contacts.
Motors -- especially ones with breakers and servos were (to me)=20 inherently untrustworthy...
Hope that explains my position.
Don't think I was arguing that -- for or against. Just pointing out how=20 grateful I was that somebody competent that worked with me could help.
Just just plaintively whining that I wish we had standards like STP so=20 we could discuss things easier -- beyond that...
This was twice -- shudder!!! Hopefully I have displayed complete=20 incompetence and If I ever post in an electrical thread again will be=20 turfed as quickly as possible.
Unless, of course, you want all the calculations done in Mod 11 or Mod=20
13 -- I can do that. Ohms law and Helmholtz equations - calculated in=20 Mod 13 -- now there's a thought... Insane -- yes but still a thought.In a matrix - LU factorization would make it easy --- yes it could work.
:-)
--=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
RRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Several took the bait. LOL With all the talk about Tom complaining about people making OT posts and him being one of the worst, another post mentioned the electrical saga. Sorry I could not resist.
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:12:03 -0700, "Charles Spitzer" scribbled:
Try the old landlord trick (which I learned from an electrical contractor): Hide the real thermostat somewhere (like in the ceiling) and leave a fake thermostat for people to play with.
Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
The wiring? Not the saw?
Will...you didn't even ask if those were metric or Imperial volts. So how can you be so sure?
The Popiet PocketFisherman LIVES!!!!
Congratulations...LOL
It's like a former roommate who turned up the heat on a boiling (open) pot so the food would cook faster. No amount of explaining about the boiling point of water would convince him otherwise.
Whew. Now you did, and have covered up my _embarrassing mistake_ How can =
I ever thank you?
Would a 2 Liter Bottle of Don Pedro Brandy be acceptable? A recent=20 visitor left it here...
--=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
how about the wiring in the saw?
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