compound miter question


I've been putting up foam crown molding in my house (I feel you cringing, but it's an old house--wavy walls and ceilings, nothing is square, etc...). The stuff we got is from "creative crown" (www.foamcrownmolding.com if you need a picture). Unlike wood crown, this stuff has a solid back (more or less triangle in shape when you look at in profile). The side that sits against the wall is 6", the side that sits on the ceiling is 3-3/16". I had no problems with inside corners, outside corners, etc., but now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to make a return at the end of an angled wall. We have stacked staircases, so on the second floor, the wall on one side of the stairs slopes down from the ceiling at about a 34 degree angle back toward the bottom of the stairs to the third floor. I would like the crown to follow the slope of the wall with a return at the end. So the front piece, it seems, will need to be mitered at 34 degrees and beveled at 45 degrees. But I cannot figure out how to cut the return, after many hours and 12 wasted feet of molding. Can anyone give me any advise about how to do this? Is it even possible? THANKS for your help.
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snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

A pic of the obstruction would be nice?
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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I don't have a picture, i can try a little diagram but these things don't usually turn out too well:
______________________ / <--34 degrees / / / / / ___________/_________
(the slope of the wall follows the slope of the stairs to the attic)
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snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

Sorry but thats about as useful as a chocolate fireguard to me,dunno about others? Anyway don't know if this is of any use and you possibly you will have to source one in the US. http://tinyurl.co.uk/pg7d This item gets pushed against the job for the profile of the area and an exact replica gets profiled in the blades and you just put up against the material in question draw the line and cut. ;-)
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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wrote:

The image seems clear to me. I believe he has a room that has a section of the wall going up at an angle because there are stairs on the other side of the wall. So basically this will be an outside corner, where one wall is 90 deg to the ceiling and one wall angled. Coping this is not really an option.
If you have a CMS or tablesaw you can test using scrap 2x lumber. I've never had to install molding on such a wall, but since the crown does not have a slope angle, it seems to me that the piece on the strait wall would need to be beveled at 45 deg and mitered at the angle of the wall. The piece on the angled wall would be just beveled at 45 deg. Of course since the wall is not at 90 deg to the ceiling, you are going to have a gap between the molding and the ceiling:
Then again, I might be totally misunderstanding your question. :)
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I think you understand my problem correctly. But the issue seems to be, when you miter the molding at a 34 degree angle, the length of the cut edge is maybe 10". If I just bevel the return at 45 deg., I will be trying to line up a 10" edge with a 6" edge. When I cut the return at a 34 degree angle also, it seems to go in a different direction (down from the ceiling, instead of back towards the wall). Which makes me think I am not orienting the return piece correctly on the CMS when i cut it. But I have tried turning it around, upside down and backwards, and I still can't get it to work.
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snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote in

Those last two sentences describe pretty closely what happens when _I_ have done crown moulding. I usually try to buy more than enough. Sometimes, I succeed.
Hold it up to the wall. Draw lines on some scrap pieces, then go make test cuts. Cuss under your breath. Do it again until you have it right. ;-)
Patriarch
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snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu (in snipped-for-privacy@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com) said:
| I think you understand my problem correctly. But the issue seems | to be, when you miter the molding at a 34 degree angle, the length | of the cut edge is maybe 10". If I just bevel the return at 45 | deg., I will be trying to line up a 10" edge with a 6" edge. When | I cut the return at a 34 degree angle also, it seems to go in a | different direction (down from the ceiling, instead of back towards | the wall). Which makes me think I am not orienting the return piece | correctly on the CMS when i cut it. But I have tried turning it | around, upside down and backwards, and I still can't get it to work.
The cut pieces can match up properly only if the lengths of the cut edges are equal. The only way to make that happen is to cut each of the pieces at 1/2 the angle between them.
BTW, a good way to avoid confusion with questions like this is to take a digital photo (borrow a friend's camera - and friend - if necessary) and post an article with photo attached to the news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking newsgroup.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Okay, I still haven't figured it out, but I have taken a couple pictures:
1. This is the sloped wall I'm dealing with, from the floor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/meganms77/angledwallfromfloor.jpg and head on
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/meganms77/angledwall.jpg
2. Here is one of the test crown cuts I made. It more or less follows the slope of the wall (only the right side matters here, the left side of the crown was cut for another test piece!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/meganms77/testcut.jpg
3. Here is the test piece from the end. It goes back to the wall at 45 degrees.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/meganms77/fromfront.jpg
I need to make a return to finish off that end, but it also needs to follow the slope of the wall. I'm not trying to wrap around the corner. The ceiling is flat. (Well, its a little bumpy, but its *supposed* to be flat.)
Does this clarify the situation? Any new suggestions? Thanks!
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On 17 Sep 2006 20:34:49 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

I believe your best bet will be to *fill in* the angled slope first so that it resembles a standard plumb wall. The molding is made for a 90 degree (ceiling/wall) application, so you are not going to be able to intersect those angles unless you build out the 37 degree void.
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Joe Bemier wrote:

Yes,it cannot be done the way your are thinking,you're going to have put a square section so that it hangs down at 90 degrees to the wall. And to be honest this will look a lot better.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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On 17 Sep 2006 20:34:49 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

It cannot be done- the only return that works is a standard 45. To clarify, imagine a 1x4 in place of the crown (placed flat against the wall). After you mitered it at a 34 degree angle with a 45 degree bevel, the stock width needed for the return to the wall would be 4.22" rather than 3.5" (and two additional cuts would be needed to keep the top and bottom on the same plane). If you ignore the top and bottom problem, you would need a piece of crown with a profile "stretched" to 120% of the stock profile for a 34 degree return to work.
Ted
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On 15 Sep 2006 09:29:58 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

As Sir Ben pointed out, a pic of the location would help. Post it in the binary group if you can sanp one. Otherwise, I think you will be dealing with splitting the angle. Run a line on both planes and then interesct them and that is your cut lines. If you are trying to Return the piece that is on the 34' slope, your Return cannot be level......is that the issue? Based on the images on the website you should be able to handle it like any other Crown.
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It's hard to understand exactly what your issue is, but it sounds a bit to me like you are making a corner and starting a slope all at the same time?

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I don't have the exact answer but I just did a search using "cutting crown molding" and came up with many sites that show how to make some of the "weirdest" cuts you'll come across. There were sites that had tables for the miter and bevel angles needed for various applications (i.e. cathedral ceilings).
The cathedral ceiling one appeared to best fit what you're trying to do http://www.compoundmiter.com/cathedral_ceiling.html
http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article.asp?Site=woodworking&ID=2
http://www.installcrown.com /
http://www.altereagle.com/5_How_to_insta.html
http://www.installcrown.com/Crown_molding_Links.html <<<< has more links
Bob S.
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On 15 Sep 2006 09:29:58 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

It is not possible. The only return that works would be square to the plane of the sloped ceiling.
Ted
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