Competition for SawStop ?

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On 1/21/11 6:03 PM, Larry W wrote:

I don't see many pros with that whirlwind thing. It brakes the blade (rather slowly, IMO) when it senses human digits under the saw guard. I'm sorry, but one main purpose of a saw guard is to tell you, "Hey, don't put your hands here!" If you run your hands under a saw guard and your own brain doesn't warn you, then you should lose part of a finger as a life lesson. :-)
What that whirlwind won't stop, is a hand slip (from whatever cause) into the blade. For that reason, and the fact that it has a giant attachment arm on it, and it only works with the guard, it is worthless.
I think if this thing had come along *before* the sawstop, people would be blown away by it. But now, it's the equivalent of inventing the CB radio after the cell phone.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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I had a similar thought earlier today, on a scale of 1 to 10 with the common blade guard being 1 and the Saw Stop being a 10, I place the Whirlwind at about a 3.
BUT that is not to say that I discourage the Whirlwind people from improving their product, it is not a game. I would love to see it out perform the SawStop rather than be a little better than nothing and or the common guard. They have a ways to go. As it is now it is an answer to the saws already out there now that don't have this technonogy.
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On 1/21/2011 6:03 PM, Larry W wrote:

I make it a habit of lowering the blade beneath the table when I'm finished using the saw. I do the same thing with the router table.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
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"Steve Turner" wrote:

------------------------------------ The wood working class I took offered by the local community college stressed this practice at every opportunity as well as only raising the blade only until the top of the material was equal to the gullet of the blade.
Lew
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On 1/21/2011 9:23 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

While I agree for most instances, IME, a higher blade can actually help to keep you out of trouble with some types of wood, like reaction wood.
Just another example of where rule of thumb can, and should be, trumped by experience, which, in the real world, ultimately dictates what is safe(r) and what isn't.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
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---------------------------------------------- "Swingman" wrote:

-------------------------------------------- You can always find an exception to the rule; however, having the minimum amount of the blade exposed while cutting is well within the 90/10 safety rule, IMHO.
Frankly since it is a college that is promoting this procedure via their participation of offering a manual arts course, I'm more than comfortable with it.
Since is part of the community college network here in CA, their potential liability issues are enormous and to be avoided where possible.
Afterall, this is CA, one of the most litigious places in the world.
Lew
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I teach that running with the blade higher than it needs to be is the most preventable way to reduce the severity of severe injury.
If you run your hand across the blade and do not hit the bone, there is a much greater chance that your finger and its function can be saved.
--
Jim in NC


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On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 07:44:38 -0500, "Morgans"

I think you teach "NOT running it higher", oui?

I understand that the bones fracture and are hard as hell to save. It sure pays to be careful.
-- "I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy as opposed to intentions." -- Walter E. Williams
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The problem with lowering the blade at every opportunity is that you will soon tire of that practice after doing it 3 or 4 hundred times during a project and it certainly will introduce inconsistencies when cutting to a specific depth.
Simply put, lowering the blade at every opportunity can increase safety but it is not practicle as production can grind to a halt if you observe and take every precaution to the letter. When you don't prescribe to the letter you take risk. When you take risks you open up to the chance of an accident. You have to weigh the risk and be your own judge.
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>When you don't prescribe to the letter

Precisely.
Max
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wrote

Having hashed through this back and forth, now you agree. But the question still nags concerning your attitude towards when to quit working with woodworking machines. Will you quit when you think you are not capable of working safely or after you have an accident and then realize you are no longer capable of working safely?
"And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common sense, agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly deteriorated that I feel the need for the device I will discontinue using a table saw."
So how will you know when your common sense is gone? Seems to me common sence would indicate that you and I both are imperfect and that neither of us is prepaired for each and every possible accident that might happen in the future. Commen sense tells me that I am imperfect, I can make a mistake, and that I may not know that I am no longer capable untill I do something that may lead to an accident.
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Leon wrote:

Life is a gamble; you take your chances and you place your bets. You could spend your whole life worry about less and less and less until there was nothing left! Or you can allow it a little more interesting. Naw, we don't need to bring any insect repellent to Mosquito Lake. : )
Bill
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@swbell.dotnet says...

"When", "until", you take it as invevitable that everyone who lacks a Sawstop is going to cut his hand off with a table saw. Earth to Leon, millions of woodworkers make it through their entire lives without cutting their hands off with a table saw.

Do you walk down the street wearing armored clothing and a crash helmet because of an accident that might occur? If not, why not?
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I have, over the years, accumulated some bit of knowledge of the function of the human mind. My minor in college was psychology and my interest in the subject has continued ever since. I have read all of Steven Pinker's tomes as well as those of several other authors whose expertise on the subject attracted my attention. As I have approached my more mature years it has occurred to me that it would be wise to study the effects of aging. As such, I have acquired some notion of the tribulations for which I felt wise to prepare. I do not approach the afflictions of aging blindly. You are obviously possessed of some of the problems that age will cause or you wouldn't have expressed your concern in the matter. Self awareness can be a valuable asset in addressing potential pitfalls. I like to believe that I am somewhat "self-aware". In addition, I have a son who visits my shop regularly. He has no reservations about offering constructive criticism. <G> I already have plans for the day I will sell or otherwise dispose of my shop equipment and undertake other activities that interest me. My other hobbies include photography, RV travel, reading and writing. Your concern and advice is, as always, appreciated.
Max
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wrote:

I made this comment before another comment that you made and I am in agreement with you all the way now, I simply misunderstood your position. We agree now to,,,,agree. ;!)
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wrote:

Thanks, Leon.
Max
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Exactly so. Well said, Leon. You hit the nail on the head. When your common sense is gone, how will you know -- how *can* you know -- when your common sense is gone?
My wife and I have an example of that right in our own household. Her parents, both in their late 80s, have been living with us for nearly two years now. Unhappily, my MIL is in the middle stages of Alzheimer's disease (or some similar progressive dementia), which makes it completely impossible for her to drive a car safely -- and also prevents her from realizing that. She can't see either (can't even make out the big E on the chart), and she also can't understand why *that* should stop her from driving.
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wrote:

;~) Ironic isn't it. I think I still have a bit of common sense... although.... My wife and I moved into an new home 4 weeks ago. My 23 year old son, his same age friend, and I tried once to move a large sewing cabinet up stairs. After the first attempt my common sense told me loud and clear that the cabinet needed to stay down stairs.
Thirty minutes later I had been talked into trying again against my better judgement. We were half way up the stairs with the cabinet and I was still not sure we could round the corner once we got up there when one of the boys suggested that I get up under the cabinet and toss the lifting straps up each side to the person at the top. My son was carrying the weight of the cabinet from coming down on top of me. I did not waste much time hanging around under the cabinet. ;~)
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-------------------------------- "Steve Turner" wrote:

------------------------------------ "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

---------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

------------------------------------- All I can say is I'm glad I don't work in your shop or ask you to be part of a crew of a sailing vessel trying to make port for the first time on a moonless black night without the aid of functioning radar or any other shore side markers such as even city light glow.
The prudent thing to do is to stand off, keep your pecker in your pants, and wait for better weather.
Not the most pleasant thing to do, but the boat and crew both arrive safely.
Same ideas apply to the shop, there is more than "..haste makes waste" at work here.
There are countless events, including some with the best navigation equipment, that ended on a lee shore.
Only the salvager benefits IF they get there fast enough.
Lew
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Lew, I think that if you really believe in what you just said that you would never set sail.
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