Would those nice people do that?
Y'mean the -extra- $500 commission he makes on 1 Sawstop sale? (WAG)
-- "I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy as opposed to intentions." -- Walter E. Williams
There ya go, Steve! And it only costs $2,000 over the normal cost of a generic cabinet saw, too! They come with free tinfoil hats, too.
P.S: The tinfoil hats come with rubber holddowns so the wind doesn't accidentally blow them off. Safety first!
-- "I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy as opposed to intentions." -- Walter E. Williams
Hey, I never said *I* would buy one. :-) People keep arguing the merits of one versus the other without ever considering the possibility of them both being available, so I just thought I'd throw it out there.
I saw a statistic that people that point out statistics in totally unrelated areas are arguing emotionally.
The fact that you feel a need to respond to someone saying in a kindly way that they manage their risks differently means you are not handling those emotions at all well.
R
In custom home building/remodeling, when the client takes it upon themselves to go into a flooring store, a tile store, a window store, a cabinet accessory store, an appliance store, a ... ad infinitum, you end up spending half your time convincing clients that what they were told by a salesperson, in order to get a sale, is not even close to reality, as in:
"Sure, that $800 stove vent liner will work just fine above your new $7,000 stove. No, you don't even need a vent hood, just have your builder install it in a cabinet, no problem!"
Yeah, right ...
I get a kick out of how people unwittingly broadcast their bias. By using the term gadget - a dismissive term, you are doing simply that - dismissing anyone else's rationale.
You seem to be the only one that has come to the conclusion that _anyone_ feels a SawStop is a). a "gadget" and b). supposedly infallible and foolproof. Nobody at any time in this thread or any other thread on this topic has said it "makes then safe." It makes them safer - no quotes needed.
You may have noticed that big red paddle switch down by your knee on the TS - does that make you "safe" or "safer"? Are they a bad idea in your opinion? How about GFIs? Eye protection? Condoms? Jails?
Incremental improvements in safety add up.
Most people? You've obviously polled a large number of people to come to that conclusion, or conducted extensive research to back up what is otherwise just another guy with a keyboard's opinion. So, please provide your vetted reference material or at least acknowledge that many people opt out of your "most people". The acknowledgment is really not necessary as it's abundantly clear you have no clue what most people's risk tolerances are, the methods they use to evaluate them, etc., etc.
You also - surprise! - conflate risk and cost. The cost of a SawStop or any other safety item is independent of the risk, right? If the cost of the SawStop, or other such technology, was right in line with the cost of a competing quality TS without that technology, or at least close to it (yes, close is a relative term, but deal with it), do you think that would change how many people opted for the safer technology? The risk of having an accident hasn't changed, just the price.
I obviously do not care what you do in your own shop, and you should not care what I do in mine. If you don't like the progress in technology, you are free to use your 1940's TS, drive your 1964 Rambler and post from your Commodore 64 through your 14.4K modem. No one will force you to sell them.
If you must argue emotionally, don't be obstreperous about it and at least try to have a sense of humor. Thanks.
R
I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is what happens to most guys who are trying to be safe and still get hurt. The guy who never even pretend to try to be safe are the ones who you just have to say, fu@& it, you don't get to keep all your fingers.
Surly in all the saw accident statistics, there are incidents in which guys had all the safety procedures in check and still got hurt. How so, then, if not from their hand entering under the saw guard?
I have, over the years, accumulated some bit of knowledge of the function of the human mind. My minor in college was psychology and my interest in the subject has continued ever since. I have read all of Steven Pinker's tomes as well as those of several other authors whose expertise on the subject attracted my attention. As I have approached my more mature years it has occurred to me that it would be wise to study the effects of aging. As such, I have acquired some notion of the tribulations for which I felt wise to prepare. I do not approach the afflictions of aging blindly. You are obviously possessed of some of the problems that age will cause or you wouldn't have expressed your concern in the matter. Self awareness can be a valuable asset in addressing potential pitfalls. I like to believe that I am somewhat "self-aware". In addition, I have a son who visits my shop regularly. He has no reservations about offering constructive criticism. I already have plans for the day I will sell or otherwise dispose of my shop equipment and undertake other activities that interest me. My other hobbies include photography, RV travel, reading and writing. Your concern and advice is, as always, appreciated.
Max
Well, there was the kid who lost an eye to a splinter that somehow got past both the guard and the safety glasses . . .
On that note we should all close our eyes when we cross the streets since none of that stuff works anyway....LOL
I made this comment before another comment that you made and I am in agreement with you all the way now, I simply misunderstood your position. We agree now to,,,,agree. ;!)
Thanks, Leon.
Max
Exactly so. Well said, Leon. You hit the nail on the head. When your common sense is gone, how will you know -- how *can* you know -- when your common sense is gone?
My wife and I have an example of that right in our own household. Her parents, both in their late 80s, have been living with us for nearly two years now. Unhappily, my MIL is in the middle stages of Alzheimer's disease (or some similar progressive dementia), which makes it completely impossible for her to drive a car safely -- and also prevents her from realizing that. She can't see either (can't even make out the big E on the chart), and she also can't understand why *that* should stop her from driving.
Sounds like a winner to me.
More leftist claptrap.
Two completely different issues, though even a moron like you should know that.
There is no "if" about it. Whether it is a working safety device is completely irrelevant to the argument, though even a moron like you should know that.
Even if that destroys the market?
More lies, from a leftist loser.
Another lie. I looked at them. I couldn't justify *TWICE* the price of my Unisaw.
More garbage from life's loser.
ROFC
(Rolling On Floor Choking - I just knew teaching the cats the Heimlich maneuver would pay off!)
Feel better now? You're a crybaby and you're going to have your whining temper tantrum no matter what anybody says.
If he offered you a _discount_ for installing a Sawstop that would make sense--you'd be reducing your risk over what it already is. But if he's saying he's going to increase the rates when there's no increase in risk, you really oughta file a complaint with the insurance commission.
Fine to push for them. Not so fine when you start trying to bully people into buying them.
If everyone but you stops smoking, your risk of getting cancer from smoking doesn't go up - everybody else's goes down. That's what you're arguing, right? Let's all keep smoking?
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