Competition for SawStop ?

[SonomaProducts.com]

And I really

Actually the Sawstop inventor had the deck stacked against him, somewhat by himself.

1. He wanted unreasonable licensing royalties.
2. The cost to re-tool and add the technology to existing manufacturing process was way to expensive for anyone to go first.
3. The current manufacturers lawyers killed any consideration because if you add this, you are admitting the thousands of saws you sold without it are dangerous. And if you offer it on one saw and not another, even worse when you get sued from someone who bought the one without it.

[Swingman]

Lawyer, plans screwed/boxed in by his brethren ... poetic justice.

[Doug Miller]

In article , tiredofspam wrote: [...]

You know what? I don't really care. If you never trigger it, that's obviously a non-issue. And if you *do* trigger it, the cost of a new blade and cartridge is tiny in comparison to the cost of treating the injury you'd otherwise receive.

Amen! Watch the slow-motion video of the SawStop in action. Advance it frame-by-frame if necessary. Count how many teeth actually touch Steve Gass' finger. One for sure, maybe the next one, maaaaayyyyyybe the third, but by the time the fourth tooth has come around, the blade is already dropping, and it sure looks to me like the fourth tooth never touched him.

That's pretty damned fast.

Same here.

I will *definitely* buy a SawStop the next time I need a new saw.

Agreed.

Yes. It's a nice piece of gear -- looks worth the price even *without* the safety feature. That *will* be my next table saw, unless something better comes along first.

[RicodJour]

No arguments with any of the above - particularly what saw you will buy next - but the idea of the SawStop stopping when the finger touches the blade seems late in the game for injury protection. The Whirlwind model stops the saw without damage while the fingers are still well away. In some sense it's a training device as much as a safety device. The Whirlwind would be the superior choice in a high school woodworking shop. Reset the saw a few times and you'll get in the habit of keeping your fingers well away from the danger area.

The SawStop guy did rock the boat and finally bring some change to a moribund tablesaw design. He singlehandedly changed the game. Unfortunately he's a lawyer as well as an inventor - a bad combination if there ever was one. Come to think of it a lawyer combined with anything is a bad idea, particularly combined with 'h*mo sapien', ;)

R

[Gerald Ross]

I like what Megyn Kelly said, "I'm a recovering lawyer".

[Leon]

Methinks that design will eat SawStop's lunch. The SawStop inventor may have outsmarted himself with the way he went bringing it to market. I don't know anyone that would think that destroying a blade and having to buy a replacement brake cartridge would be preferable to pressing a button to restart.

Might be a good deal.

Of course, having an overhead safety guard like the Whirlwind one, just by itself, would probably prevent 99% of serious injuries. The dust collection is a big bonus. And retrofitting tabletop saws...? Totally covers the market.

The apparent required guard would be the deal breaker for me. I'd probably go with the SawStop at this point.

How much do you think that system for a tabletop would end up going for?

$4289.05 l~)

[Doug Miller]

Perhaps; on the other hand, any injury you might happen to get on a SawStop-equipped saw means a trip to the first-aid kit to get a bandaid, rather than a trip to the ER and reconstructive surgery.

As long as the fingers are moving slowly, yes, I'd agree with that. But what if your hand slips, and moves toward the blade too quickly for Whirlwind to react in time? SawStop's major advantage is that it stops the blade almost instantly on contact. Whirlwind's reaction time is slow enough, I think, to permit a disabling injury if your hand slips into the blade.

Another big point in SawStop's favor is that it works with the guard removed, e.g. while making a dado, groove, or cove cut.

[Max]

I would like to see a demonstration of the SawStop where the operator runs a small piece of wood (and his finger) into the blade at the speed with which I usually run a small piece of wood thru. Every demo I've seen shows a very careful (slow) approach.

Max

[SonomaProducts.com]

Every demo I've seen shows a very

No, that standar demo is a hot dog on top of a piece of wood cut at typical speed and the dog ony get's nicked but I still grab my crotch everytime ai see it.

[russellseaton1]

I seriously doubt if this is accurate. Automakers offered anti lock brakes on many cars, luxury, before offering it on all cars. And it was an option on cars, not mandatory. I'm pretty sure there are many tests showing anti lock brakes are safer than non anti lock brakes. They stop you quicker. Automakers were not sued out of existence because they sold some cars that were safer than other cars.

[-MIKE-]

I emailed sawstop tp ask if they had any videos like that. They said they didn't, but that most operators at the woodworking shows do it in that manner... with the hot dog, of course.

At some point, sawstop will do an official fast feed rate demo video or one from a show will pop up on youtube.

[SonomaProducts.com]

bout a million on Yuotube. Gotta love it. Here is one.

[-MIKE-]

I asked about a video showing the dog going into the blade quickly, as if simulating ones hand slipping forward into the blade.

That video is a pretty good real feed rate and it does show that you would likely have a good little piece of skin & fat taken off, possibly need a stitch or two or just a good butterfly bandage.

I suspect the results would be *identical* even if they shoved a dog in there at "slip speed." I just wish someone would post a video to shut up all the members of the tin-foil hat club.

[Larry Jaques]

and there was sawdust on the top of the saw as well as the floor. You turn on the saw and slip in the sawdust and are falling into the saw blade. Your right hand slips off the top and your other flails out to catch yourself. It goes right into the spinning blade at a very fast rate, about 30 times faster than the demo cut. NOW what happens? We've only seen feed rates of 1 foot per minute and one inch per second. What about 80ips, hmm?

-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

[-MIKE-]

The same thing. You can do the math. I can't... maybe yo can. :-) The video in this post isn't 1"/sec. It's more like 5-6"/sec.

[SonomaProducts.com]

OK, I say we ask for a video where they shoot a sausage at the blade using a wrist rocket sling shot and see what happens.

[Dave Balderstone]

I recall reading about a study of police forces in the USA that found the accident rate did not drop with ABS brakes.

The reasons were that the drivers either did not use them properly (still pumped the pedal) or drove more aggressively because they thought the brakes would compensate somehow.

[Leon]

What about 80ips????

What happens is one hell of a lot less damage than if the saw was other than a SawStop. I'd still be much happier that I got a bad cut than loose a whole finger, hand, arm, or internal body part.

[Max]

[Max]

Um...... my saw has a guard that (I think) would mitigate the damage somewhat........maybe.

Max