Competition for SawStop ?

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I still view the sawstop has superior.
It can work without a guard. So it is always able to work. Even when I don't want to use one. When cove cutting.
The whirlwind is good, but not as good as the sawstop. And I really don't fault the sawstop inventor. He was turned down by all the companies.
The whirlwind may succeed, since the manufactures missed the boat once. They won't twice.
Never the less, the sawstop does eat blades. But it doesn't take 4.5 revolutions to stop the blade. So if I don't want to use the guard, I can still be assured my hot dog won't be eaten.
I would buy the sawstop if I had the money. And I will probably buy a sawstop next time I need a new saw. Especially since the Delta brand has let me down a few times lately, and now that they are sold... it make it a moot point. The quality of the saw stop is where the 66 was. But the sawstop passed it. It is a beefy heavy ... nice saw. Big trunions. Nice fit and finish.
On 1/18/2011 4:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

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And I really

Actually the Sawstop inventor had the deck stacked against him, somewhat by himself.
1. He wanted unreasonable licensing royalties. 2. The cost to re-tool and add the technology to existing manufacturing process was way to expensive for anyone to go first. 3. The current manufacturers lawyers killed any consideration because if you add this, you are admitting the thousands of saws you sold without it are dangerous. And if you offer it on one saw and not another, even worse when you get sued from someone who bought the one without it.
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On 1/19/2011 2:04 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Lawyer, plans screwed/boxed in by his brethren ... poetic justice.
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www.e-woodshop.net
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I seriously doubt if this is accurate. Automakers offered anti lock brakes on many cars, luxury, before offering it on all cars. And it was an option on cars, not mandatory. I'm pretty sure there are many tests showing anti lock brakes are safer than non anti lock brakes. They stop you quicker. Automakers were not sued out of existence because they sold some cars that were safer than other cars.
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In article

I recall reading about a study of police forces in the USA that found the accident rate did not drop with ABS brakes.
The reasons were that the drivers either did not use them properly (still pumped the pedal) or drove more aggressively because they thought the brakes would compensate somehow.
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In article <3102061f-816c-4c65-9463-888a76fc1f48

No, they don't. At least not on dry pavement--there's no discernible distance between typical stopping distances for ABS and no ABS. They can beat most drivers most of the time on wet pavement though.
But ABS was not initially sold as a safety feature, it was a performance enhancement.

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J. Clarke wrote: ...

...
As long as the driver can exert maximum braking force and not lock them up, anyway...
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says...

Google "ABS dry stopping distance" and you will find the results of numerous tests in which it was shown that ABS does not significantly reduce dry stopping distance. Doesn't matter if the diver locks them up, he still hits about the same number as ABS. Sometimes ABS is a couple of feet shorter, sometimes it's a couple of feet longer, there's no consistent pattern of reduced stopping distance.
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Actually ABS brakes do indeed work better on dry pavement. One might think incorrectly that dry pavement would make all tires lock up at the same time and there fore "fool" the ABS into thinking that the vehicle was stopped. In real life the rear wheels will typically lock up first as the weight shifts to the front of the vehicle and the rear tires then lock up while the front tires are still spinning. And then there are instances when there is an accumulation of sand or dirt on the street that causes a wheel or wheel to lock up. Add to that list rough pavement that would cause a tire to bounce off the ground during breaking and lock up. I have experienced all three of those examples in my Tundra and the ABS brakes faithfully engaged.
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@swbell.dotnet says...

But did you stop shorter than you would have without ABS and if so how did you determine this? And why does every test comparing ABS with no ABS on dry pavement conclude that it does not stop shorter?
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ABS offers one difference under the following, and often encountered conditions:
Place the right side of the car on something slippery, like ice...the left side of the car on dry pavement....go 50 MPH and slam on the brakes full engagement.
Do this with ABS and do this with regular brakes. Compare.
or
Slam on the brakes in a tight curve..on snow...try to steer while braking.
Do this with ABS and do this with regular brakes. Compare.
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<nospam.nospam.com> wrote: [...]

You know what? I don't really care. If you never trigger it, that's obviously a non-issue. And if you *do* trigger it, the cost of a new blade and cartridge is tiny in comparison to the cost of treating the injury you'd otherwise receive.

Amen! Watch the slow-motion video of the SawStop in action. Advance it frame-by-frame if necessary. Count how many teeth actually touch Steve Gass' finger. One for sure, maybe the next one, maaaaayyyyyybe the third, but by the time the fourth tooth has come around, the blade is already dropping, and it sure looks to me like the fourth tooth never touched him.
That's pretty damned fast.

Same here.

I will *definitely* buy a SawStop the next time I need a new saw.

Agreed.
Yes. It's a nice piece of gear -- looks worth the price even *without* the safety feature. That *will* be my next table saw, unless something better comes along first.
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On Jan 19, 8:54am, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
m.nospam.com> wrote:

No arguments with any of the above - particularly what saw you will buy next - but the idea of the SawStop stopping when the finger touches the blade seems late in the game for injury protection. The Whirlwind model stops the saw without damage while the fingers are still well away. In some sense it's a training device as much as a safety device. The Whirlwind would be the superior choice in a high school woodworking shop. Reset the saw a few times and you'll get in the habit of keeping your fingers well away from the danger area.
The SawStop guy did rock the boat and finally bring some change to a moribund tablesaw design. He singlehandedly changed the game. Unfortunately he's a lawyer as well as an inventor - a bad combination if there ever was one. Come to think of it a lawyer combined with anything is a bad idea, particularly combined with 'homo sapien', ;)
R
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RicodJour wrote:

I like what Megyn Kelly said, "I'm a recovering lawyer".
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
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Perhaps; on the other hand, any injury you might happen to get on a SawStop-equipped saw means a trip to the first-aid kit to get a bandaid, rather than a trip to the ER and reconstructive surgery.

As long as the fingers are moving slowly, yes, I'd agree with that. But what if your hand slips, and moves toward the blade too quickly for Whirlwind to react in time? SawStop's major advantage is that it stops the blade almost instantly on contact. Whirlwind's reaction time is slow enough, I think, to permit a disabling injury if your hand slips into the blade.
Another big point in SawStop's favor is that it works with the guard removed, e.g. while making a dado, groove, or cove cut.
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wrote:

I would like to see a demonstration of the SawStop where the operator runs a small piece of wood (and his finger) into the blade at the speed with which I usually run a small piece of wood thru. Every demo I've seen shows a very careful (slow) approach.
Max
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Every demo I've seen shows a very

No, that standar demo is a hot dog on top of a piece of wood cut at typical speed and the dog ony get's nicked but I still grab my crotch everytime ai see it.
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On 1/20/11 10:20 AM, Max wrote:

I emailed sawstop tp ask if they had any videos like that. They said they didn't, but that most operators at the woodworking shows do it in that manner... with the hot dog, of course.
At some point, sawstop will do an official fast feed rate demo video or one from a show will pop up on youtube.
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-MIKE-

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bout a million on Yuotube. Gotta love it. Here is one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9OLIzMa4Oo

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On 1/20/11 1:51 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I guess I wasn't clear or didn't quote correctly. I asked about a video showing the dog going into the blade quickly, as if simulating ones hand slipping forward into the blade.
That video is a pretty good real feed rate and it does show that you would likely have a good little piece of skin & fat taken off, possibly need a stitch or two or just a good butterfly bandage.
I suspect the results would be *identical* even if they shoved a dog in there at "slip speed." I just wish someone would post a video to shut up all the members of the tin-foil hat club.
--

-MIKE-

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