Combination square or double square?

[Michael Press]

Combo square seems to have a longer blade and option of additional heads... aside from that, does one do something the other doesn't? Which one are you grabbing most?

Thanks, Michael

[Unisaw A100]

Actually, longer blades are available but what you typically see with a double square are 4" and 6" blades.

For me combination square hands down but probably for a different reason than most. I usually use several squares when marking a job out. On more than one occasion I've had a double square set with the head midish on the blade and had to fumble around with it to determine which end of the blade was set up.

Also keep in mind that 45's are a whole bunch easier on a combination square.

The first thing I get out at the beginning of a project is a combination square. It's also the last thing I put away.

UA100

[Ed Angell]

and it a fabulous tool. I do a lot of hole layouts from the edge of materials and the double square can't be beat. I sure would hate to have to determine a 45 degree miter with my double square.

[Ed Angell]

young, it will cost you less than 1 buck per year to own it. I would bet you would wear out at least 3 or more cheapies in the same time. If you ever get tired of WW, you could resell the Starrett for almost what you paid for it.

Ed Angell

[Conan The Librarian]

My Starrett 4" double-square is the first tool on my bench and the last off it. Heck, I'm not sure it's ever been off of the bench. Its small size and the ability to use it one-handed make it handy for all sorts of things, from serving as a depth gage for mortises, to marking dovetails, checking for square when edge-jointing, etc.

Having said that, it's not much help for marking wide boards.

My advice is to get both a double-square and a 12" combination square. If you feel like you can't afford Starrett, you should probably get another hobby.

Just kidding. There are other alternatives out there, like Brown & Sharpe and Mitituyo (sp?).

But I wouldn't skimp on a tool like this.

Chuck Vance

[Mark]

LMAO

True. You can skimp in allot of areas, layout and setup tools aren't one of them. And there are plenty of suitable substitutes for Starrett.

I would start with the combo, the 12" with forged square head. Or you may choose to spring for the full boat, the square head, centering tool and protractor. You can get all 4 pieces cheaper as a set than if you were to buy them separately.

I have a double square, I think I've had the drill sharpening gauge out of it 4 or 5 times in ten years, it wouldn't be my first choice.

[LRod]

What's the big whoop about the forged head? Mine is the cast iron, and I can't imagine I'd need to spend more money (like 25% more) on something that already seems like the best there is.

- - LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

[Bridger]

it's really not an either/or thing.

you think that you can't ever have too many routers? try measuring and layout tools. I have 2 drawers of a roll away tool box filled with them, a canvas bag full for on site work and lots of singles/misc about the shop. Bridger

[Routerman P. Warner]

Setup square at the

link has many uses. Can be referenced from either end of the stock, for setting up templets, scribing, layout and so on.

**************************************************************

[Conan the Librarian]

And that just goes to show that we all work differently. My double square is almost always on my bench. But the important point is the same: If it's a tool that you use so much, it's worth it to spend the money necessary to make sure it's good quality.

I think I paid ~$40 for my Starrett double-square, and I know I've gotten more than my money's worth out of it.

Chuck Vance

[Conan the Librarian]

Yep. That's why I suggested he start off with a combination and a double square.

Not really. I have one and it sits mostly unused.

Now if you were to ask me about planes. :-}

With that many measuring tools, I would be concerned that they were all exactly the same (or at least try very hard to make sure you stick with one set for the duration of a project). I've heard too many horror stories about mistakes creeping in when you switch from one measuring tool to another in the middle of a project. (This applies mostly to measuring tapes, but I can see other areas where it could apply.)

Chuck Vance

[Bridger]

hey Conan.... how many planes DO you have?

tell me about it. I really wish I had enough crowbar to get a really good master square, for instance. I know that some of my squares are out- I just try to remember which ones and only use them when the tolerance is that much or more.

I went shopping for 4 foot straight edges a while back. ones guaranteed accurate start at about $100. one of these days....

[Mark]

Durability.

Just sliding the rule through the head wears the head. The rule feels smooth to your touch, it's not smooth to the head. The steel head will take allot longer to wear out.

: After loosening the lock press out on the nut to keep the rule from being pulled into the head by the lock spring till you get the rule close to the desired setting.

For you people who's tools are used only for woodwork the cast head is probably all you need. Sawdust isn't all that abrasive.

For those of us who use our tools in more hostile environments where tools are exposed to abrasive contamination it could well be worth the extra money.

[Conan the Librarian]

Er ... uh ... metal or wood? :-)

Let's start with smoothers ... last time I looked I had one homemade wooden one, a C&W, a couple of Knight ones, a L-N #4-1/2, a L-N #164, a Veritas #164 and an old Stanley #4. Then there's the old Stanley #5, #6 and #7. A huge (24") old Ohio Tool wooden jointer. A Sandusky jack/fore. A Veritas low-angle block, plus an old Stanley #60-1/2 and #65. A L-N low-angle jack.

Then there's some specialty planes like the Stanley #40, #71, #78, #79, #90, #92, #271. A Record #044. A L-N #140. And a few old wooden dado planes (1/4", 3/8" and 1/2").

Oh, and a couple scraper planes, like the LN #112 and the Veritas #112. And the Stanley #80 and Veritas #80 clone.

And then there are various old wooden molding planes that I've got stuck away in a cabinet until I get around to tuning them.

And then there's my spokeshaves, but they don't really count as planes.

As I wrote in another thread, I sure am glad I got into woodworking so I could save money by making my own furniture.

Yikes, I think I'd mark them or something so I didn't have to wonder. :-) But you said you take some to jobsites, so I guess the ones that are "good enough" get used there.

Man, I'd have a hard time with the crowbar for that one. I'm also guessing that a good straightedge starts to get a mite heavy by the time it gets to 4' long. :-}

Chuck Vance

[Lowell Holmes]

You have no shame.

:-)

[Larry Jaques]

No, but he's got one helluva budget!

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:06:34 -0600, "Lowell Holmes" brought forth from the murky depths:

-snip of lebenty seben li'l pals-

.-. Life is short. Eat dessert first! ---

Comprehensive Website Development

[Nate B]

"LRod"

Rockler wants $70 for the cast iron version (C11...), Amazon wants $70 for the forged version (C33...)

Just need to shop around and pay attention to the model numbers.

- Nate

[Mark]

And if you want it tomorrow Grainger has the forged head with 12" rule for $74.

Page 2851 Starrett PN: C33H-12-4R Grainger stock number: 4K478

McMaster has the same head with both hardened steel blades ($74) and plane steel blades ($65). Page 2061. I wouldn't do the plane steel blade, couldn't get a utility knife near it.

Or you could enter C33H-12-4R in Google.

[Conan the Librarian]

I dunno ... I got a couple of L-N planes and the Veritas low-angle block with gift certificates and three other planes were free (pre-production models given to me for testing). Otherwise, I just budget some discretionary cash for important tool purchases.

Until recently, wooddorking was my only hobby that involved any real outlay of cash. (Now that I'm back into flyfishing, that has changed, but I haven't been buying nay new tools recently.) I've been driving the same Chebby vang since 1996. My clothes "budget" goes for shorts, jeans, t-shirts, flannels and Hawaiian shirts and I wear sandals or tennis shoes. I hardly buy any CD's these days, as there isn't that much new stuff that's any good anyway. I enjoy a beer and a smoke, but keep those to a reasonable amount.

It's all about priorities. And as I tell SWMBO, she should be thankful that I've got a hobby that is good for me and actually produces something for around the house.

Hey, I could be spending my money on fast women and loose cars.

Chuck Vance

[B a r r y]

Just broken in! I drove my purchased new '85 Toyota pickup until 1997 and 300,000 miles had passed.

Barry