Cleaning up an old table saw

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On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:15:39 -0600, Swingman wrote:

I agree on discipline, but I don't recall there being a plethora of good teachers back in the '50s. Maybe one out of 5 of my HS teachers qualified as good, 3 as mediocre, and 1 as horrible. I remember only one really excellent teacher.
I hesitate to mention this because it's not P.C., but the rules now force the teachers to teach the unteachable. Also known as the lowest common denominator. In my day, if you couldn't keep up after as much extra help as the teacher could give, you were eventually ignored and given a failing grade. They can't do that anymore, it hurts the kiddies self esteem.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On 2/13/2012 6:38 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

It's quite possible that we were lucky in the school district I attended. I was decidedly not a stellar student as far as grades, nor that high in my class standings (to the point of having to submit to "testing" for admission to a state college ... no SAT back in those days), but, and based on the excellent _teaching_ I benefited from, I "tested out" of most of my college freshman classes and started college almost a sophomore, with +/- 18 credit hours.
My youngest daughter, who graduated from HS in 2002, in the same city, had teachers that were arguably, and pointedly, illiterate ... there is no other word to describe their condition. I have their attempts at replying to my emails as proof ... 12 years of dealing with the ensuing educational bureaucracy is well documented on my hard drive, ten years later.
It took an inordinate amount of parental involvement to get a kid out of basically a school district in the same city some 40 years later. Especially considering that my parents never so much as interacted with a single one of my teachers, and never once set foot on the school grounds ... it simply wasn't necessary.
Pity the poor children who did not get the parental involvement that is an absolute necessity today ... we will be dealing with them for as long as they, and their children, and grandchildren, exist ... and they breed like the good little, two party, political currency rabbits they were raised to be, all entitled to one vote.
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:02 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

What are the percentages of students failing and having to repeat a grade? That'll tell you more than your personal experiences will.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Um, someone tell Mike about the No Child Left Behind laws. They're what predicated the change to LCD teaching. And someone find the persons responsible for putting more money into the architecture of school buildings, the sports programs, and the administrator salaries than that of the teachers. And make them pay for their crimes against humanity.
My neighbor's son was a high school Principal and tried to save teachers after funding cuts by removing the funding for the athletics department. The -state- jumped in and said he _must_ fund the dept. This was not the PE classes, but the -volunteer- sports programs. He thought that if enough parents wanted the sports, they could fund 'em themselves. The state told him differently. <thud>
Sports are more important to some people than their child's education. Go figure.
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:45:34 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Were the parents Professors or school teachers? Profs make more.

Amen! I guess the state thinks that parental donations directly to the school and/or the sports programs more than make up for the lack of teaching and teachers, somehow.
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:37:12 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

I did read but people use words carelessly, so I checked. So sue me. I'm in a small, rural part of Oregon and you're over in the big city. Salaries are a bit different in the two places.

Agreed!
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:07:18 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

The East Coast is one big city, as is the greater San Angeles area here on the Left Coast. You've never been rural so you don't know.

Right now I'm worth about a plugged nickel. Halvsies?
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message wrote:

The East Coast is one big city, as is the greater San Angeles area here on the Left Coast. You've never been rural so you don't know. ==========================================================You don't really believe that, do you?
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:24:17 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

To me, rural means not having the amenities of the city nearby. How far away (distance or traveling time) is your "lot" from city conveniences?
Perhaps something more pertinent to the conversation. How far away in distance or traveling time is your "lot" from a major hospital? An airport? A major grocery store?
To me anyway, those things are the "city".
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:54:08 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Honestly, I'd have to question your "rural" designation, at least by my "time" criteria. With the frequent traffic congestion of any moderately sized city, thirty minutes traveling time is entirely acceptable. Quite possibly, the bulk of your travel time might be past fields and farms, but most anything you might need is apparently readily available if and when it is needed. "Rural" is supposed to be isolation in most every sense of the word, at least the way I view it.
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:24:17 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

I was back there in '98 with a buddy, doing a PM on a gamma camera up on Lon Gisland. (Massapequa, IIRC.) We drove from there to D.C. and I saw all the forests between. Talk about tunnel vision on a really dull trip. BORING! Anyway, I know it's not one big city, but the density there is much higher than here in the West.

Geeze, neither you nor CW caught the Demolition Man reference. <sigh> Hmm, I missed the Blade Runner and Double Dragon references myself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Angeles

The Czech is in the male.
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 06:08:19 -0800, Larry Jaques

from: http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/June08/Features/RuralAmerica.htm
The term “rural” conjures widely shared images of farms, ranches, villages, small towns, and open spaces. Yet, when it comes to distinguishing rural from urban places, researchers and policymakers employ a dizzying array of definitions. The use of multiple definitions reflects the reality that rural and urban are multidimensional concepts, making clear-cut distinctions between the two difficult. Is population density the defining concern, or is it geographic isolation? Is it small population size that makes it necessary to distinguish rural from urban? If so, how small is rural? Because the U.S. is a nation in which so many people live in areas that are not clearly rural or urban, seemingly small changes in the way rural areas are defined can have large impacts on who and what are considered rural.
'Rural definitions based on the administrative concept start with the Census Bureau’s list of “places.” Most places listed in the 2000 Census are incorporated entities with legally prescribed boundaries (e.g., Peoria City), but some are locally recognized, unincorporated communities. Rural is defined as territory outside these place boundaries, together with places smaller than a selected population threshold. For example, USDA’s Telecom Hardship Loan Program defines rural as any area outside Census places of 5,000 or more people.
Rural definitions based on the land-use concept most often start with the Census Bureau’s set of urban areas, consisting of densely settled territory. Rural as defined by the Census Bureau includes open countryside and settlements with fewer than 2,500 residents. Urban areas are specifically designed to capture densely settled territory regardless of where municipal boundaries are drawn. They include adjacent suburbs that are outside place boundaries and exclude any territory within places that does not meet the density criteria.
The most widely used rural definition based on the economic concept consists of the 2,050 nonmetropolitan (nonmetro) counties lying outside metro boundaries. Metropolitan (metro) areas are county-based entities that account for the economic influence of cities. The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) defines them as:
Core counties with one or more urban areas of 50,000 people or more, and;
Outlying counties economically tied to the core counties, as measured by the share of the employed population that commutes to and from core counties. Using these criteria, urban entities are defined as countywide or multicounty labor market areas extending well beyond their built-up cores.
Prior to 2000, the land-use concept (Census urban areas) and the economic concept (OMB metro areas) were not applied to urban entities below 50,000 people. In 2000, the Census Bureau added urban areas ranging in size from 2,500 to 49,999 (labeling them urban clusters to distinguish them from the larger urbanized areas that had been defined since 1950). OMB added a new micropolitan (micro) area classification, using the same criteria as used for metro areas but lowering the threshold to 10,000 people. These modifications greatly increase the flexibility of researchers and administrators to tailor rural definitions to different target populations. Counties are often too large, especially in Western States, to accurately represent labor market areas in all cases. Thus, metro and micro areas often include territory that is legitimately rural from both a land-use and economic perspective. ERS Rural-Urban Commuting Area (RUCA) codes provide an alternative, economic classification using census tracts rather than counties. Although relatively new, these codes have been widely adopted for both research and policy, especially in rural health applications.
RUCA codes follow (as closely as possible) the same concepts and criteria used to define metro and micro areas. By using the more detailed census tracts, they provide a different geographic pattern of settlement classification. While counties are generally too large to delineate labor market areas below the 10,000 population threshold, RUCA codes identify such areas for towns with populations as small as 2,500. Additional information and files containing the codes are available in the ERS Measuring Rurality Briefing Room.
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:57:44 -0800, Larry Jaques

But New York covers a lot of land that is FAR from the "east coast" and about as "rural" as you could get. Real "hill-billy country" -

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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:45:32 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

So says the man from the most densely populated area in his entire country. <chortle>
This is humor country, and literalists need not apply.
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca says...

FWIW, the community I live in, if I displayed photos, most people would classify as "suburban". I can walk 10 minutes in one direction and I'm on a tobacco farm. I can walk 10 minutes the other way and I'm on a dairy farm. In 2 hours driving I can be in one of the largest cities in the world. So how do you classify the locality?
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wrote:

"rural residential" comes to mind. AKA "smalltown america". Lots of "blink twice and you miss it" "towns" in America. Unincorporated villages. Whistle stops, rural crossroads communities, former stage stops, etc. And they are as common in the north east as they are in the midwest heartland.
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Protected by zoning! : )
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:39:50 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

Mike, 51% passing is more than 49% that aren't :-). All I was trying to do was to get a quantifiable answer.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:32:21 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

My suspicion is that a more students flunked out when I went to school than do now. But numbers are hard to come by. When I try to look up failure rates over time I get numbers that count dropouts, boasts about some new technique that lowers failure rates, etc.. But nothing that says x percent flunked in this year, y in this year, etc..
One could suspect that the NEA doesn't want those numbers readily available :-).

No, I don't. I've lived in Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Idaho, California, and Washington. I have no knowledge of the NY school system. But if you have the nirvana you describe, you're very lucky.
I think most people over 50 who come in contact with today's high school graduates would declare it obvious that standards have fallen since they went to school. But even that opinion can be challenged on the grounds that maybe some of those graduates actually weren't.
I do remember seeing claims that a 4-year college degree today is equivalent to a high school diploma of past times. Anyone have that data available?
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 17:58:44 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Well I know for sure that what comes out of the college automotive repair course today is roughly equivalent (being generous) to what graduated from a good Ontario technical secondary school in 1969
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