Chinese particleboard is bad stuff, boys

[Guv Bob]

Speeking of the Chinese.... yew no I just did some research on building = cabinets and see that most all std cabinets are at least partly made of = particleboard. =20

Well, scents I know that some formaldehyde and so on leaks out of = particleboard, I snooped around to see how to use it and turns out you = can seal it up perty good with shellac, etc., and the gases will be shet = up inside.

Whilest doing high level research on this, (here's where you boys come = in) I found out that them rotten Chinese are dumping = high-formaldehyde-content particleboard onto us fine US folks. Imagine = that!? And after all the Chinese food we eat, too!!

According to a top secret mole I got at the guvmint sweat shop, this is = on account of they was palming it off on the Germuns and the Japunees = when those countries wised up and passed laws against it.

-So, back to my story, they are dumping it cheap hand-over-fist on us to = git shed of it before a 2011 deadline takes effect that wood stop it = dead its tracks. But by then, all their bad particleboard will have bin = sold here and installed in shelves and kitchens. If you want to check = it yoreself, don't call EPA - they just give you a bunch of hooey. = Call your states indoor air quality folks - this could be in the = environmental or air quality dep or in the health dept.

This ain't jest another of my wild self-serving rumors - hit's = die-rectly from a feller in gubmint, which, as we all know, never lies = and is always right.

The US-made stuff is stamped with an Amer National Stds Institoot no = A208.1 - 1993 which means they are in compliance with a 13 year old = standard, which ain't bad but it's still 13 years old and way behind the = findings of field testing.

As far as I can tell, they ain't required to label it "WARNING: MADE IN = CHINA WITH HIGH LEVELS OF CANCER CAUSING CHEMICALS JEST A WAITING FOR = YEW TO BREATHE IT IN!" so you have to look at it perty close. =20

So... this does have a climax (sorry ladies)....=20

If you are building shelves or anything for inside yore house, be sure = to seal any un-laminated particleboard with shellac or some other good = sealer. I like shellac cause it dries quick and is alcohol based, so = you don't have that nice lingering solvent smell in the house ad = nauseum.

Welp! That's the word on the street boys.

Guv Bob "Buy American - if yew kin find it!!"

[goaway]

Never felt a need to use particle board. It has NO redeeming values. It heavy, it fails easily, it sags with any moisture content, can not burn the scraps and the bigest fairtail of them all ==== truely usless for countertops that you want to truley last... Always have and always will use plywood for my projects. And to those who say "but it's cheep" yes for the first time something is built, but when it needs to be rebuilt because it warped or ballooned up when it got moisture in it, no so cheep. And tell me how long to the blades in your saw last cuting that garbage???? Any garbage they sweep off the floor at these factories ends up in the "Particle board". Ever notice how they NEVER call it wood particle board, just particle board.......

Buy crap, get crap

Well, scents I know that some formaldehyde and so on leaks out of particleboard, I snooped around to see how to use it and turns out you can seal it up perty good with shellac, etc., and the gases will be shet up inside.

Whilest doing high level research on this, (here's where you boys come in) I found out that them rotten Chinese are dumping high-formaldehyde-content particleboard onto us fine US folks. Imagine that!? And after all the Chinese food we eat, too!!

According to a top secret mole I got at the guvmint sweat shop, this is on account of they was palming it off on the Germuns and the Japunees when those countries wised up and passed laws against it.

-So, back to my story, they are dumping it cheap hand-over-fist on us to git shed of it before a 2011 deadline takes effect that wood stop it dead its tracks. But by then, all their bad particleboard will have bin sold here and installed in shelves and kitchens. If you want to check it yoreself, don't call EPA - they just give you a bunch of hooey. Call your states indoor air quality folks - this could be in the environmental or air quality dep or in the health dept.

This ain't jest another of my wild self-serving rumors - hit's die-rectly from a feller in gubmint, which, as we all know, never lies and is always right.

The US-made stuff is stamped with an Amer National Stds Institoot no A208.1 - 1993 which means they are in compliance with a 13 year old standard, which ain't bad but it's still 13 years old and way behind the findings of field testing.

As far as I can tell, they ain't required to label it "WARNING: MADE IN CHINA WITH HIGH LEVELS OF CANCER CAUSING CHEMICALS JEST A WAITING FOR YEW TO BREATHE IT IN!" so you have to look at it perty close.

So... this does have a climax (sorry ladies)....

If you are building shelves or anything for inside yore house, be sure to seal any un-laminated particleboard with shellac or some other good sealer. I like shellac cause it dries quick and is alcohol based, so you don't have that nice lingering solvent smell in the house ad nauseum.

Welp! That's the word on the street boys.

Guv Bob "Buy American - if yew kin find it!!"

[Robatoy]

All true what you're saying. BUT! Aside from being cheap, the are some serious advantages to consider. Most PB is laminated with melamine, a very durable surface for the inside of a cabinet. It is pre-finished and usually very consistent in terms of flatness and thickness. All that is very useful to assure a predictable, square product. (This is assuming we're machining it square, etc.) If all you ever build is one kitchen, by all means, use plywood. Even if you're only building 3 per year, by all means...but make sure you get the big bucks for them with all that finishing and stuff. Some of that adhesive used in the manufacture of plywood isn't the prettiest either, btw. PB is completely useless for countertops. Even clad in laminate, there is just a problem waiting to happen.... solid surface or engineerded stone (quartz) is the only way to fly. (The fact that I can even utter a salespitch at 4:30 AM must mean my vacation is truly over.

r

[Robatoy]

Most PB..as in.... most PB in kitchen cabinet work is melamine clad...nobody ever uses unfinished PB in a kitchen cabinet...now would they?

[Guv Bob]

Not around here. Most of the ones I have seen in showroom show only = laminate from the front, but if you pull the drawers out or look around = back, almost all of them have unfinished particle board. Besides Lowes = and Home Depot, check your local cabinet shops and look up underneathe. = Even the sides and back that are laminated have raw, unfinished = particleboard contacting the floor.

[DerbyDad03]

- Most PB..as in.... most PB in kitchen cabinet work is melamine

- clad...nobody ever uses unfinished PB in a kitchen cabinet...now would

- they?

Ah... the 4:30 AM factor showed up. Get some sleep! ;-)

[J. Clarke]

Are you on about particleboard or about MDF? Or do you even know the difference?

[Robatoy]

messagenews: [e-mail]...

from the front, but if you pull the drawers out or look around back, almost all of them have unfinished particle board. Besides Lowes and Home Depot, check your local cabinet shops and look up underneathe. Even the sides and back that are laminated have raw, unfinished particleboard contacting the floor.

Ahhh, the edges of the gabels. Why yes, of course. Those are never finished.

[Robatoy]

The EDGES??. Nope, never finished... except tape on the visual fronts maybe in a european style cabinet. But I have never seen/used melamine on one side of a panel.

[Guv Bob]

messagenews: [e-mail]...

laminate from the front, but if you pull the drawers out or look around = back, almost all of them have unfinished particle board. Besides Lowes = and Home Depot, check your local cabinet shops and look up underneathe. = Even the sides and back that are laminated have raw, unfinished = particleboard contacting the floor.

Not just the edges (with, by the way, is were most of the fumes come out = because they are rough and not sealed). The whole flat sides and back = are exposed particleboard. Give me a binary newsgroup you have access = to and I'll upload a photo.

[Guv Bob]

You need to seal the edges for safety - not for visual appearance. The = edges are just like edge on wood - they soak up water like a sponge, and = also emit FORMALDEHYDE that is used in the mfr of particleboard. The = flat finished sides of particleboard are not coated either but emit less = because they are pressed and finished.

I appreciate the fact that particleboard has some good uses, but I'm = talking about the solvents and adhesives used in making it being emitted = to the air. Like I said, there are regulations in place to limit the = outgassed to 10% of what is allowed today mainly because of the Chinese = dumping of high-toxic-gas content particleboard, but the compliance date = is 2011 and doesn't affect the tons of particleboard now being used in = household cabinets.

We're not talking about a lot of money to correct these problems. A few = cents per 4x8 sheet. However, you still need to seal the cut edges.

You may be used to sealing wood only to keep moisture out, but you also = have to seal it to keep any harmful chemicals inside if you're going to = use it.

Guv Bob

[Guv Bob]

Photos posted at alt.binaries.crafts.pictures under subject, "Cabinets = with exposed particleboard "

[Guv Bob]

PS -- The surface is shiney because I coated all the particleboard with =

2 coats of shellac.

[Robatoy]

exposed particleboard "

I have got to hand it to you. I have yet to encounter a piece of cabinetry that badly made. Just awful.

I have been in this business since 1976 and it has always been melamine on both sides. There was a rash of 'ResCore' around which was some kind of resin painted PB, but that didn't last long. I know of no cabinet shop in my territory that would stoop to that crap.

I guess the off-shore crowd won't stop at anything, eh?

Thanks for the heads up, I will be keeping a close eye on some of the imported stuff.

A sheet of 4x8 5/8 melamine (120 gram) might cost 20 bucks... so over a whole kitchen, if I can get that sheet for half that price, I save what...100 bucks if I use 10 sheets? $ 100.00 on a 8-10K$ kitchen...whoopie.

[Guv Bob]

"Cabinets with exposed particleboard "

Yeah, I learned more than I really wanted to on this little project. = Evidently the latest industry standard now in use is ANSI A208.1 - 1993. = Don't ask me what that means though... that's where I get off. Probably = means "buyer beware."

After this little experience, I went around to other cabinet shops and = find out that most advertise the particleboard cabinets as a come-on. = Then they offer 'various grades' -- laminated one side, both sides, = edges, etc. =20

By the time you learn what you really need to know, you wish you could = go back and start over. Same with women.

Guv Bob

[GROVER]

cabinets and see that most all std cabinets are at least partly made of particleboard.

particleboard, I snooped around to see how to use it and turns out you can seal it up perty good with shellac, etc., and the gases will be shet up inside.

found out that them rotten Chinese are dumping high-formaldehyde-content particleboard onto us fine US folks. Imagine that!? And after all the Chinese food we eat, too!!

account of they was palming it off on the Germuns and the Japunees when those countries wised up and passed laws against it.

shed of it before a 2011 deadline takes effect that wood stop it dead its tracks. But by then, all their bad particleboard will have bin sold here and installed in shelves and kitchens. If you want to check it yoreself, don't call EPA - they just give you a bunch of hooey. Call your states indoor air quality folks - this could be in the environmental or air quality dep or in the health dept.

a feller in gubmint, which, as we all know, never lies and is always right.

1993 which means they are in compliance with a 13 year old standard, which ain't bad but it's still 13 years old and way behind the findings of field testing.

WITH HIGH LEVELS OF CANCER CAUSING CHEMICALS JEST A WAITING FOR YEW TO BREATHE IT IN!" so you have to look at it perty close.

any un-laminated particleboard with shellac or some other good sealer. I like shellac cause it dries quick and is alcohol based, so you don't have that nice lingering solvent smell in the house ad nauseum.

While on a business trip to Germany many years ago, I learned that the German code requires all six surfaces of PB must be covered with laminate to prevent out gassing. The Germans invented PB to provide sheet stock for the cabinet making industry using any wood which remained after WW ll. It is my understanding that currently manufactured U.S. PB has ameliorated the gassing problem. The Chinese in keeping with their record regarding tires, dog food, tooth paste and children;s toys can not be trusted to care too much about PB carcinogens. Joe G

[Robatoy]

cabinets and see that most all std cabinets are at least partly made of particleboard.

particleboard, I snooped around to see how to use it and turns out you can seal it up perty good with shellac, etc., and the gases will be shet up inside.

found out that them rotten Chinese are dumping high-formaldehyde-content particleboard onto us fine US folks. Imagine that!? And after all the Chinese food we eat, too!

account of they was palming it off on the Germuns and the Japunees when those countries wised up and passed laws against it.

shed of it before a 2011 deadline takes effect that wood stop it dead its tracks. But by then, all their bad particleboard will have bin sold here and installed in shelves and kitchens. If you want to check it yoreself, don't call EPA - they just give you a bunch of hooey. Call your states indoor air quality folks - this could be in the environmental or air quality dep or in the health dept.

from a feller in gubmint, which, as we all know, never lies and is always right.

- 1993 which means they are in compliance with a 13 year old standard, which ain't bad but it's still 13 years old and way behind the findings of field testing.

CHINA WITH HIGH LEVELS OF CANCER CAUSING CHEMICALS JEST A WAITING FOR YEW TO BREATHE IT IN!" so you have to look at it perty close.

seal any un-laminated particleboard with shellac or some other good sealer. I like shellac cause it dries quick and is alcohol based, so you don't have that nice lingering solvent smell in the house ad nauseum.

Cover it up all you want, you still need to process the panels and all the dust collection in the world isn't going stop gases from floating about the shop. Only proper filters will stop those gases. Even 32 mm system gang drilling operations will release trapped gases from under the melamine skin. BTDT. I'm pretty sure by now that they won't have to embalm me after I vapour-lock.

[Fred the Red Shirt]

I think those are the 'good' ones. The crappy ones are made with MDF.

[Chris Friesen]

Other way around--MDF is better than particleboard. The only benefit of particleboard is cost.

Chris

[Robatoy]

What smells worse? Hippopotamus dung or rhinoceros dung? It's all shiat. Having said that, I would select MDF for projects where PB wouldn't do and (as my aunt used to say) vicie versie. Both products disgust me in different ways.

r