Can you think of a safer way to cut a tiny piece of wood on a table saw?

Page 1 of 2  
Factual opinions accepted.
Hand waving generalizations without specific criticism to the points given below will indicate the poster's lack of knowledge of kickback and danger to fingers.
Forget what you know about RAS and its inherent danger when you pull the blade towards you or when you rip with it.
This saw is NOT a RAS as configured.
1> What is the potential danger for kickback when using a slide tableand a screw hold down?
2> What is the potential danger to the operator's fingers if theoperator pushes the slide table from the sides of the table and there is a slide stop well short of the blade?
This is the saw video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwzWDLnuxCs

Notice that the chips are not a problem.
Watch where the hands are placed.
.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I'd prefer to have another screw on the other side...you can see the hold down warp as he tightens the single screw.

Minimal.
One final suggestion would be to use a negative hook blade. As it stands, the positive hook will tend to want to lift the workpiece from the table, fighting the holddown. A negative hook blade would tend to push the workpiece into the table and fence.
Chris
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The hook-angle of the teeth might be a little bit of help, but as long as the rotation stays the same? Wrong saw for the job. Period.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Just a quibble on this small point....
I don't think it is the wrong tool. I think the application of the tool is wrong.
He should hold the piece to be cut with the tip of his index finger (only) and rapidly move the saw into the wood before it can get away while yelling "JUDO... CHOP!".
(Probably followed by a scream, but hey, no one said learning woodwork wasn't without sacrifice!)
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Just a quibble on this small point....
I don't think it is the wrong tool. I think the application of the tool is wrong.
He should hold the piece to be cut with the tip of his index finger (only) and rapidly move the saw into the wood before it can get away while yelling "JUDO... CHOP!".
==========Is it the saw that cuts? Or is it the saw causing me to move it so the wood becomes cut? It is a circle, the no-saw way to cut. It was so in the beginning. It is so again at the end. The saw does not cut. I cut the wood. We are one. I have heard the sound of one hand clapping.
(My saw came wrapped in a fitted navy blue tog, emblazoned "Samurai!!!" in gold ink. The exclamation points weren't really visible, but I know they're there.)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Like the Buddhist who walked up to a hot-dog vendor and said: "Make me one with everything." The vendor replied: "Change is coming."

LOL
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Besides, micro-surgery has come a long way. In fact, just recently doctors in Africa grafted a baby elephant trunk in place of a wrestler's penis which had been ripped off in an alligator fight. The wrestler in question, after many months of intense therapy and healing, was interviewed by a team of doctors When asked what his overall experience was, the wrestler commented that his girlfriend was quite happy, but that every time he walks across a lawn, the damn thing would shove a tuft of grass up his butt.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In fact, just recently doctors in Africa grafted a baby elephant trunk in place of a wrestler's penis which had been ripped off in an alligator fight. The wrestler in question, after many months of intense therapy and healing, was interviewed by a team of doctors When asked what his overall experience was, the wrestler commented that his girlfriend was quite happy, but that every time he walks across a lawn, the damn thing would shove a tuft of grass up his butt.
============That's about as good a parable as I've seen on the unintended consequences of lawmaking.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Chris,
Instead of pushing, another approach is for the operator to pull the slide table towards himself from the opposite side.
The slide table itself would have a limit stop and could not hit the operator in the stomach.
Also, the chips and/or loose teeth would fly away from the operator.
More better?
Stu
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Jan 30, 8:52am, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

As long as the blade is above the support of the material cut, the rotation should be such that the work want to go away from your face and towards a fence. The work should not be allowed to be stopped by the neighbour's fence behind you. There should only be as much blade as needed to make a cut, especially when exposed to the naughty bits. A table saw with a zero clearance mitre box is the better, nay, MUCH better choice here. (Yes, even though the blade is spinning towards you.)
And I have never seen a tooth come off a sawblade. Of course, during demolition that happens all the time; but we're talking woodworking here. Of course, knocking a beautiful Japanese vernier caliper off the fence onto a running blade will both destroy several teeth and the caliper and then have the caliper fly through the air narrowly missing the idiot's head....or so I'm told.
Much more better?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, obviously, much better. But the question still remains why are you going to so much trouble? If you need a bunch of thin slices such as those depicted in the video, why go to all this trouble to resaw them from an only slightly thicker slice? Why not cut them off the end of a much larger piece? This whole thing looks to me like a solution in search of a problem.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You're going to get the same comments you got before. Seems like you're looking for applause for your dangerous solution to a non-existent problem.
I'll say it again, buy a band saw.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Error, I am sorry, I meant Chris, of course.
Chris, my apologies.
Mike, you deserve zero credit.
BoyntonStu
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Enjoy the finger pointing, while you still have them.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I glanced at the vid. Remind us, what problem does this solve?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

Holy crap that looks dangerous! You've invented a miter saw, but with the blade designed to throw things at you instead of away from you. If *anything* goes wrong with the hold-down, it's going to spit the remains at your face at full speed. Buy a miter saw! The jig looks fine, I'd want a screw on both sides of the blade, but you really want the blade turning the other way. Even if all works well, it will be throwing the sawdust right at your mouth - wear a dust mask to protect your lungs. Even with the RAS you should be able to swing the head around so that the blade is pushing away from you.
As for doing that on a table saw, I've done it before. You just need a thin enough push block and a zero clearance insert, and (as usual) don't stand in line with the blade just in case. I could also do it with my incra 5000 and a hold-down. The safest way to do it would be to double-stick tape the small block to a larger one and just use a miter fence. Or use a bandsaw or scroll saw.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

FYI All radial saws are designed to rip that way.
Look at the factory installed splitter and anti-kick.
Apparently, you have little or no experience with ripping using a RAS.
Again, this is NOT a RAS as configured.
Thanks for the suggestion about another screw.
The fact is that the single screw holds the workpiece down with a quite a lot of force.
I cant wiggle a piece free.
Any uplift/kickback would have to be on the left side of the hold down and the force would have to be larger than the shear force of the partially sawed plywood piece.
Cutting wood on this saw is like slicing meat on a deli saw.
The saw dust is deflected away from me by the piece of plastic mounted on the blade guard.
BTW I can still count to 21 if I pull my pants down.
BoyntonStu
P.S. I was considering the idea of reversing the motor.
However, the thought of a spinning blade pulling the slide table with me along for the ride, is bothersome.
Would it be beneficial to do so?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

All radial arm saws are designed to push the wood *away* from the operator when crosscutting.

Look at the blade rotation. I don't care about everything else, it's pointing towards your face.

You are not ripping. You are crosscutting. At least, you've installed a crosscut-style table. I wouldn't dare rip with a RAS for exactly the reasons I wouldn't crosscut with your setup. Too dangerous.
If I was faced with a situation where I had to use a RAS that way, I'd wear the same protection as I do when turning, for the same reason.
Why not just use the existing crosscut fence, with your hold down behind the blade, and move the saw away from you to cut? You get the same benefits as your setup, but without as much danger. Saw off, pull towards you, install wood behind it, saw on, push to cut, saw off, remove wood.

It holds one side of the workpiece down. The other side is not held down at all, and can come loose after it's cut off.

Or your screw would have to break. Stranger things have happened. Remember, safety is about preventing the unexpected, not just about preventing the expected.

Deli saw blades turn the other way. I own one.

Assuming (1) it catches it all, (2) you have no other drafts in your workshop and (3) it never fails.

That's the way a RAS normally crosscuts. RASs are dangerous, that's why most of the people I know don't own one. There's very little you can do with a RAS that you can't also do - more safely - with other tools.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks for the suggestion about another screw.
The fact is that the single screw holds the workpiece down with a quite a lot of force.
I cant wiggle a piece free.
lmao. so your contention is that the hold down is safe because the force you're applying while 'wiggling' the piece is the same or greater force that the saw is able to exert if anything starts to go wrong. That is truly funny.
Don't bother replying, you've got an answer for everything, and I don't really care if you're doing something I consider to be unsafe so long as *you* consider it to be safe.
jc
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That's not a rip cut.

Neither of which have any effect on this cut.

Apparently, neither do you, or you'd recognize that that's *not* what you're doing here.

Quite true -- it's much less safe.

It's not a symmetric force, though, which leaves the piece subject to twisting.

And you think therefore the saw can't???
Hint: that saw has at least a 1hp motor. You can't generate that much force with your fingers. Tell me you can't pry the piece out with a crowbar, and then I'll begin to consider that maybe the saw can't pull it out either.

Sure it is. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that.

How well do you suppose that piece of plastic will do at deflecting a kickback?

That's about the only think I can think of that you could do to this setup to make it less safe.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.