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On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:40:03 +0000, Mark & Juanita wrote:

All the requirements should be documented, with the mandatories identified for first release and the remainder scaled as to importance (gets political at this point).
-Doug
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

The hardest part of this problem is the heuristics for the layout engine. The rest is a matter of technique and paying attention to detail. If I were doing this (and thankfully, I am not :) I would spend my early research and time on the heuristics problem...
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

... snip

Maybe have some standard sizes as selectable inputs (like standard melamine, baltic birch (half sheets), standard ply.

Perhaps with an option to turn off orientation in order to allow more efficient selection for sheet goods where orientation is not important. i.e. melamine
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On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:37:46 +0000, Mark & Juanita wrote:

Good stuff!
All we need now is a volunteer for the requirements doc, and after that, the design doc.
I'm a coder and don't do "docs" ;-) But I know where to get templates and so forth...
BTW, I've been trying to install/build lignumCAD on RH9 with no joy (but haven't really gotten into the source yet). If it really does what is documented, this whole project could be a feature enhancement.
-Doug
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also useful would be the ability to turn off orientation per piece. sometimesorientation of a ply panel matters, sometimes not     Bridger
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

LignumCAD worked well for me but I had to do some font thing that I don't remember exactly what, I think it had something to do with X86config. I know when I had trouble with it in the beginning the developers were very easy to contact and get info from. It might be different today since it was at least a year ago that I messed with it. But the idea of having something built into LignumCAD would be a great idea. At least a suitable plug-in or an import, export feature.
Rich
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

I've been looking at it just now, and I see what you mean. I'm not motivated at the moment, but I'll grab the code in the morning and set about dicking around with it. Looks like I *should* have most of the deps already in line, and I'll just have to find them and diddle the files.
I'll definitely be too stupid to use it though. All I had to see was the "3D" and that was enough to scare me away forever. :)
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On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:37:46 +0000, Mark & Juanita wrote:

With a little more though on my part, preferred/non-preferred orientation should be an attribute of the material - width/length order can be interchanged for efficiency as long as the rule of no stop cuts is preserved.
-Doug
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I'll suggest that so-called "stop cuts" are *not* a problem _IF_ the software specifies the order of the cuts.

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snipped-for-privacy@host122.r-bonomi.com says...

Is the software going to specify how you're going to shut off the Tablesaw and remove the stop-cut piece without damage to the piece or yourself?
The thought of a stop-cut on a full or substantial portion of a sheet of plywood seems a bit problematic; but then maybe it's just me.

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On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:38:13 +0000, Mark & Juanita wrote:

This is why I *love* requirements meetings ;-)
-Doug
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On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:38:13 GMT, Mark & Juanita

I just did one a couple of hours ago. countertop with an inside corner. marked the stop point with tape, fed the material to within about 3 or 4 inches, stopped feeding the sheet. raised the blade to finish the cut (closer to 90 degrees and all). cranked the blade all of the way down before shutting down the saw. all in all it felt very safe. now, this was an almost full sheet of 3/4" plywood, so it had enough weight that kickback was unlikely. if it was something like a 6 or 8" wide board of dimensional material I would have lifted it off of the blade when I got close and finished with a handsaw and chisel.     Bridger
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The _original_ reference to 'stop cuts' expressly stated that you did all the rips first, then cross-cut.
If you have a situation such as:
A B +---------------+--------+-------+ | | | | | (1) | (4) | (6) | | | | | | | +-------+ C D +---------------+ | (7) | | +--------+-------+ E | (2) | (5) | | | | +---------------+--------------+-+ F | |X| | |X| | (3) |X| | |X| +------------------------------+-+ G
If you make the cuts in the order F-G-A-D-E-B-C, you never actually deal with the 'having to turn the saw off and extract the stop-cut piece'. EVEN THOUGH most of the rips do not go the full length of the raw material.
Laying out the above to strictly comply with 'rip, then cross-cut', takes 2 sheets of material, and results in 50+% waste.
The *only* time a stop-cut is indicated is when you _need_ an 'L-shaped' piece; and in that situation, it is -- to the best of _my_ knowledge -- *unavoidable*.
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

About the various types and sizes... I'm not quite getting what a cutlist program should do in this area. I create a list of parts, and it tells me what size board/how many to buy, or I specify the board and it helps me figure out what parts I can cut out of it?
With random length/width hardwoods, this is something that needs real thought. As a user, I'd probably want to be able to build a database of stock I have available for the project at hand, and let it pick what goes where.
Since we're dealing with two dimensions (at least, that's as far as I'm thinking right now) it doesn't much matter whether it's a board or a sheet.
I'm thinking of Board objects that have a length, width, and grain orientation property, including "no grain" as an option. This kind of object could represent anything from walnut to plywood to MDF.

Definitely. I'm thinking for convenience predefine standard and thin, then have a user-specified option.
I'm thinking we want to stay away from floating point and potential rounding errors and big headaches. I'm thinking 1/64" resolution, and track all dimensions internally as 64ths. We should allow for Metric measurements for the whole rest of the planet too, which is something that needs some thought. Use Imperial internally, convert to Metric as needed. Use Metric internally, convert to Imperial as needed, or work with whichever system internally. Since this is Linuxdom, we should probably default to Metric, or take the preference from the locale.

Does thickness matter? Things get much more complicated in three dimensions.
Should have a quick and dirty typing mode, and a pointy clicky typing impaired mode.

URL? I haven't heard of it. OK, I'll STFW. Anyway, I agree on principle. In the long term, it should probably export to useful formats too. Browsing the abstracts after a google search, it seems some of the Windows programs can be used to export files that can be fed to CNC equipment. Lots of research needed, and I would put that as a late cycle feature.

Or vice versa. For the sort of things I've been making lately, it's better to crosscut into discrete regions and then rip to width.

If I have anything to do with it, it will be GPL, and if it has a GUI, it will be QT/KDE. I have enough trouble with one framework, and since I'm not a professional developer, I see no reason to learn anything else. I like KDE, I use KDE, I hack on KDE apps, and avoid everything else as much as practicable.

Lot's to go yet, I'm sure. I've never started anything collaborative from scratch, so this is all new to me. If somebody with a hefty dollop of clue wants to take the reins and get things off the ground, I'll be happy to step back and be a mere footnote contributor.
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What about the ability to add a small amount to each dimension for a rough cut which can be cut to final dimensions at a later time.
The ability to generate a shopping list. Basically say that my sawmill sells lumber which is 4-6" wide and 100" long. How many boards will I need.
-Bill
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EvoDawg wrote:

I use... Um. sirc? I don't IRC much either. I set something up when I was switching to Debian, so I could ask those guys some stupid questions. There's no Debian newsgroup for some reason.
Lots of IRC clients out there though, and no, that's not a bad idea at all.
We should set up some kind of mailing list. I've looked into the registration process at SF, and we need to get a lot further toward having tangible goals before I'm comfortable writing up a proposal. We should come up with a way to communicate between now and then without clogging up the Wreck, but IRC isn't the best choice for me.
I guess for now, if you have any thoughts, e-mail me.
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I missed the beginning of the thread (short retention on newsserver), so this might have been covered.
Has anyone talked with the developers of the existing programs (sheetlayout or curlistplus) to see if they would be willing to port them to Linux?
Perhaps they'd do so for good debugging feedback. I've forgotten which one I have, but I had found a bug that let one bypass the limits on project size. From a business standpoint, fixing that bug would be worth some development effort.
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Jason Rziha
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Hi All, I have been following this thread with a lot of interest as I am involved in the development of a Panel Optimization program PLUS 2D (www.nirvanatec.com) myself.
In addition I have been a long time CAD programmer, in the Unix environment, but have shifted to the Windows env.
I have found that there is a better return on investment on programms written for the windows environment...ie. more people buy your programs... Though my love for Unix has not deminished in the years, and would love to port my application to Unix/Mac/Palm but I reckone windows users are a much bigger market and more likely to pay_for/buy products, and I find it a little difficult to justify the costs involved. just my 2cents worth...
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Shrikanth S wrote:

Start working in Python with either Tkinter or wxPython GUI frameworks and your problems will be solved. It is _hands down_ the best cross-platform environment I have ever worked in...
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Jason Rziha wrote:

No I haven't, and that's always worth a try. However, I've talked to a lot of other developers about porting their stuff to Linux. I usually get the same kind of warm response I used to get at job interviews. Carefully stifled laughter until I'm on the other side of the door, then the sound of the deadbolt slamming home. :)
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