CAD for simple 3-D metal & wood projects?

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No need to send me a Sketchup file, I understand perfectly. But, your explanation leads me to a few more questions. Are the back face frames for support, visualization, a combination of both or maybe something else?
And, how are you fastening the back panels? If the back face frames are 3/4" initially, removing a rabbet of 1/2" leaves only 1/4". I'm guessing some type of glazier points or something similar?
Thanks.
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On 11/24/2013 12:15 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

The back frames are for all of the above. They make the piece into more of a piece of furniture than simply a cabinet with a face frame, which is how a lot of furniture is built. Having a back face frames gives the sides symmetry and allows me to add other touches should I need to decorate the sides more. And they add a lot of support and strength to the backs of the cabinet. If there is a wide adjustable shelf the back center stiles along with the front center stiles give me an additional spot to add adjustable support pins. Marys bookcases are approximately 10' wide total. IIRC the center section is about 48" wide and the tall outer cases are 36" wide. The goal with Mary's bookcases was to build cases that she could load up with books and not see any sag in the shelves. Mission accomplished.

The back face frame rabbets are actually 1/4" deep not 1/2" as I misstated above. They are 1/2" wide. And the back face frames like the front face frames receive the top, side, and bottom panels with 1/4" deep by 3/4" wide dado's and grooves. I typically use a 5/8" inch #6 pan head screw to attach the backs for easily removal. Sometimes a mirror is call for instead of a solid panel.
Bottom and top panels fit into dado's at the bottom and top of the side panels.
Dry fit prior to gluing the cabinets will stand up on their own.

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Well, I've got to tell you, I'm impressed. It looks good and it adds functionality. Definitely something I'll consider adding to the next shelving project I do.
Thanks
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Thank you, this is a method/style I came up with about 3 years ago. I'm sure I am not the first but I don't recall seeing it anywhere else. I have built 20 separate cabinets units using back face frames. AAMOF in the group of pictures that the link points to there are back face frames on Mary's cabinets, the two tone pantry, the 3 upper and lower book cases, the desk unit with the upper unit with the curved top rails on the doors, the TV cabinet with 6 drawers, the spool lower cabinet and lastly the two cabinets under the long arm sewing machine.
With you having the domino the lap joints reinforced with the domino floating tenon used on the back face frames should be easily doable. Again if you would like a drawing showing the details all you have to do is ask.
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I don't have Skectchup yet, but I sure would like to see a few pictures of partial construction of the face frames in the back of a unit.
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On 11/25/2013 8:47 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Ill post some more pictures after breakfast to show that detail.
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On 11/25/2013 8:47 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Details of the back face frames, 16 pictures. I added a few captions to explain what is going on but you should get the idea.
I showed my dado extender jig, e-mail me and I-ll explain further. This is kind of a trade secret. stupid simple but a time saver and a must when attaching any face frame to any side, top or bottom panel.
Any way, follow this link and scroll left and right to see the set of pictures.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051045046/
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I tried to email you and it bounced back as not being found. Have you by chance changed your email address?
Anyway, I'll try again later in the day.
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On 11/26/2013 5:51 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

I did not change my address, replace dot with "."
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Between the mortises, rabbets and Domino joinery, I don't know if I'd have the patience to build the way you do. I guess once you develop the system and get in the habit of using it, the rest just comes naturally. It looks good and it's solidly built. I sure hope your customers appreciate the quality of the products they get from you. The everyday furniture I see up here is absolute junk compared to what you build. Maybe I need to visit some good quality cabinet builders.
Was the dado extender jig, the one with the picture that had the Kreg joinery? If you can email me If so, I wouldn't mind some additional explanation. I have your proper email address and I've emailed you in the past, but right now I still can't email you directly. If you can email me, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
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On 11/27/2013 8:31 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Seriously All of those joints are pretty simple with the Domino. You just have to keep your shit together so that you don't screw up. ;~)
If anyone is going to screw up it would be me but so far after making dozens of these face frames, no problems.
The back face frames are simple, I cut the dado's and or groves first. Then I cut the rabbets that receive the back panels and form the joints between the rails and stiles. The trick here is to cut the mating tenon after cutting the rabbet with out moving your fence. The spacing for the width of the rabbit is the same for the tenon. To cut the mating tenon to fit the rabbet I simply mount my miter gauge and use the fence as the stop for the length. All you have to change is the height of the cut and I use a scrap to sneak up on that.
The trick to the Domino tenons is to simply dry fit the face frame after all cuts have been made and mark the domino locations just like you would with biscuits.
I use the tight fit setting on the Domino to cut the mortises on all pieces that get the mortise in the end of the board. I use the middle width setting on all of the pieces that receive the mortise on the edge of the board. This gives me wiggle room.
A hint here, the 5 mm bit affords you the best fit when you only have the 1/2" left over area under the rabbit. Also remember to reference the same face when that you marked. don't turn the piece over so that you can see what you are doing. ;~) The trick here is to remember to make the Domino plunge and additional 12 mm to the normal 15 mm when using the 5 mm x 30 mm domino. so that setting should be 27 mm. this lets the bit cut 15 mm deep although it had to extend 12mm to start with to cleat the edge of the rabbet and or tenon.
Clear as mud so far? ;~)
Anyway you would think that this would be difficult but I have not yet had a miss fit.
Now if you have not guessed yet the front face frames and back face frames dado's/groves have to mirror each other where the bottom, top and side panels fit. During the cutting operation for the back and front face frames it is critical that the back face frame pieces that receive the tenon to fit the rabbet be "1 inch" longer than the same front face frame parts. Remember that the tenon is 1/2" longer on each end for the back face frame.
Any way after every thing is glued up you will notice that that the groove/dado in the bottom/top rails butt up against the outer stiles. This dado needs to extend to the dado in the stile. Cutting that short distance across the outer stile needs to be done free hand so to speak. Not a problem on the front face frame as it is not easily seen when you look in the cabinet. The back face frame is another matter altogether, you see that cut when you look inside the cabinet. The dado jig in the picture makes completing that dado simple and fast for both front and back face frames.
I sent you an e-mail using the address you used last year so you should be able to return my e-mail for details if you want.
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With all the instructions you've given me, I'd have to use your back face frames method a few times before I became comfortable with it. But, thanks for the detail, I can see a lot of advantages to it.

Yes, I got it and tried to reply, but it bounced back like all the others. Obviously, there's a problem in my system that I need to rectify. Let me find it and fix it and then I'll email you.
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On 11/28/2013 12:54 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Let me look a little deeper and make sure Yahoo has not put you on my spam list.
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On 11/28/2013 8:20 AM, Leon wrote:

What I meant to say check my mail bouncer. I don't see you there.
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On Saturday, 23 November 2013 21:17:28 UTC, Leon wrote:

Hi Leon,
What is this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11002063544/sizes/h/in/set-72157630857421932/
??
I assume it's something to do with sewing due to the cotton reel, but my tiny mind can't imagine what the whole thing would be for (which isn't a shock, really!)
Cheers.
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 04:55:04 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I believe it's a quilting machine.
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On Sunday, 24 November 2013 12:59:04 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

Yeah, you know, after sending that question, and with dismal predictability, I saw the other posting about it!
Cheers!
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On 11/24/2013 6:55 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That is a dedicated sewing machine that is know as a Long Arm Sewing Machine. It's sole purpose is to attach the top, inner padded layer, and bottom parts of a quilt together.
The three sections of the quilt pieces are rolled up on to the front two poles then through the needle and foot of the machine then behind and up the back bottom pole and would up on the back upper take up pole.
The machine rolls back and forth on the tracks, 11' wide, and it moves forward approximately 12~14". With this X,Y movement the operator can sew a freehand or laser guided pattern through all layers of the quilt left to right or right to left 12~14 deep at a time. Once a pass is made the sewn portion of the quilt is roll up on the upper back take up real and a new row of sewing begins.
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On Sunday, 24 November 2013 16:53:25 UTC, Leon wrote:

Thanks for the explanation Leon, much appreciated. I'd wondered how they do that sort of thing!
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

Once you get them that way, how long does it take them to expand/shrink to something else?
--

dadiOH
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