Cabinet saws

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My table saw (a used Taiwanese import I bought used about 15 years ago) is about to give up the ghost. I could get a new motor, I suppose, but I would really like a better saw. My cash flow is somewhat limited (a daughter in college and I am 2.5 years from retirement) and as such I am considering two saws at present. The rec has some of the most knowledgeable people around, so I thought I would open it up for advice on these two models, or other suggestions.
Thoughts, anyone?
T21849 W1677 Shop Fox Heavy Duty Tablesaw http://grizzly.com/products/W1677-Shop-Fox-Heavy-Duty-Tablesaw/T21849
or
G1023SLW 10" Left-Tilt Cabinet Table Saw http://grizzly.com/outlet/10-Left-Tilt-Cabinet-Table-Saw/G1023SLW
TIA, Glen
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On 12/31/2009 8:56 AM, Glen wrote:

Of the two, I would go with the G1023SLW. It's been a very popular saw and I was impressed with it the only time I got to use one about five years ago (I have a Unisaw, so that was the basis for my perception).
Be sure to check Craigslist in your area. I have an icon sitting on my desktop and check the tool section daily. The past year has been notable for the number of used cabinet saws for sale in this area, and there have been two Delta or Rockwells just in the last week.
--
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I second the Craigs List idea... There has been a large volume of used tools, ranging from low end home owner tools up to computer controlled commercial shop tools on Craigs List for many months. I'd estimate that a shop could have been equipped with commercial duty Delta/Jet/Powermatic floor model cabinet saw, shaper, thickness planer, large bandsaw, large jointer, mortiser, and all the tailed and tailless tools you'd need for $3-4,000 with no problem. There have been good buys on European combination machines too. Sad times for the commercial shops...
Regarding the two saws listed the Shop Fox is basically the same saw as the Griz... except for the router table on the right.
John
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I don't know where you are located, Glen, but take a look at these guys, Many, many happy hybrid saw users. http://www.general.ca/images/frontpage/flyers/Promo%20fall%20winter%2009-10%20US.pdf
This one with a link-belt upgrade will pass the nickel test no prob. Dunno how the pricing will work for you. http://www.general.ca/site_general/g_produits/saw/50-220r.html
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I bought a Rigid 110V saw when they first came out I think about tenor twelve years ago. I basically looked for the most expensive saw I could find available RIGHT NOW and figured I would have the best chance of getting a decent saw. I would not call it cabinet grade, but it has been used for cabinets, window framing, trim, framing, and cutting marine aluminum. The saw itself still works just fine. I had a couple minor issues with range of movement when angling the blade, but most of the time I have the blade set at 90 deg to the table anyway. The only other issue I have is after ten years some of the leg screws backed out. Probably a result of movement and abuse as I have had it on several different sites and used it for everything and it still works perfectly, and rips 3/4 ply with ease if you do not try to force feed when needed. Its my understanding that Hitachi makes their motors now, but that's not a bad thing. My Hitachi miter saw is much older (16-17 years) and been used for much the same kind of work.
I am not a cabinet grade carpenter or even a carpenter, but this saw still does decent work. If I am doing precise work I always put a tape from the fence to the blade on both the lead and the following edges. For rough work I just use the guide scale and go.
I would like to add that my Uncle Paul is a cabinet grade carpenter. Actually detail quality might be a better description. He has an ancient 220V saw in his work shop with a giant table. When he was asked to spend a couple years before he retired managing a plant outside of his home town he decided not to move his entire shop. Instead he setup a smaller shop in his temporary home and among the things he selected was the same model Rigid saw as mine. It has a roller base with a step/kick pedal to set it down solid when working. Mine gets moved constantly. His probably got used as a stationary tool.
Its not super cheap, but its not the price of a big stationary Jet or Delta either. Its way better than either of the Sears Crapsmen table saws I used in the past. I have a big 220V Delta 12" radial arm saw that I almost never use because the Rigid table saw does most things I need, and I can move it around to wherever is convenient.
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Glen: I have owned a Grizzly 1023s for about seven years and couldn't be more pleased. It is a close cousin to both saws you have linked to; and both use the Shop Fox heavy duty fence. This fence is a hog that has received good reviews compared to several aftermarket fences. When I bought mine Grizzly had just introduced the left tilt version and I didn't want to be among first-in-line on a totally new upper trunnion assembly; but it as proven to be a good machine for Grizzly.
Personally, based on similarity, I would have no problem recommending the Grizzly version; and the Shop Fox is probably close enough to the Grizzly to make little difference.
BTW - Our son owns a Grizzly G0444Z which is a 2hp/220v contractor's saw. It has the cast iron tables, good power and the aluminum version of the Shop Fox Classic fence. I used it extensively for 3-4 weeks when we were trimming out their new house about three years ago. it too is a solid saw, for a little less money. As it sits, it won't collect dust as well as the cabinet versions, but I believe they do offer a kit to retain much of the debris. He, as I, also used the Shop Fox mobile base which makes moving it around a smaller shop very easy.
I share your decision pain. My 1023s was planned to be my retirement machine too. After comparing it to Unisaw and the Jets it just made more sense for the money. I also used Grizzly's referral service and was able to talk to a local guy who had bought THREE of them (his, his son and son-in-law). That plus a trip to the Springfield store sold me on the purchase. Seven years of use have convinced me I did OK.
RonB
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:56:16 -0800, Glen wrote:

Steel City has a cabinet saw with riving knife where the motor has been downsized to 1.75 horsepower so it'll run on 110. If you catch a sale it should be about $1000.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:44:14 -0600, the infamous Larry Blanchard

If I'm blowin' a grand, I'm getting 3hp and 240v, TYVM.
-- Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven. Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
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"Larry Jaques" wrote

Uhhh..., Larry, When we buy tools, we don't think of it as "blowin' a grand".
We think of it as making a prudent investment in machining capacity.
A word to the wise. ;-)
Oh yeah that's right , you aren't married. Never mind.
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:39:09 -0500, the infamous "Lee Michaels"

Rightio. I don't have to lie to myself. Besides, tools are my living. If I'm not collecting 'em, I'm using 'em to put bread on the table.
-- Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven. Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
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Glen wrote:

The issue of Woodworker's Journal that just came out has reviews of many cabinet saws. They may have some comments of interest to you.
Personally, I'd consider this one http://grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife/G0690
I'd really prefer the Saw Stop, but it is 3X the price.
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Glen,
I do not know where you are located but if near Salem, MA look at one of these links.
Not my posting, I just search Craigslist as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Grizzly-12-Table-Saw-G0606X-Extreme-series-2007_W0QQitemZ380187439714QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5884eff262#ht_748wt_1167
or
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bfs/1528337223.html
Larry C
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On 12/31/2009 12:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

http://grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife/G0690
That's a nice looking machine at a reasonable price.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
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Craigslist for your area. http://www.govliquidation.com/ - Type in your state and go. I bought one of my Unisaws from Fort Polk for $150. http://irsauctions.com/?flash=9 - Check for a listing near you.
Also, check your state government's surplus auction site.
Sonny
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On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:56:16 -0800, Glen
[...snip...]

I have the G1023SL and it has been a very solid performer for me. Mine is minus the cast iron router table wing extension. I suspect the Shop Fox is comparable to what I have now; some time ago there was discussion about a Shop Fox model that came out and was a bit heavier in the inner workings compared to the G1023 series. This may be that one, I don't know. I doubt it really matters that much.
If I was buying today I'd spend a bit more and get one with a riving knife, such as this Grizzly model (someone already referenced this in a previous post): http://grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife/G0690
The blade guard / splitter on the G1023 is typical of what was available on table saws when that model came out. In other words, not very good. But other more expensive saws had the same problem.
Also, make sure you really want a left tilt. There are pros and cons for left vs. right tilt. I like the left tilt fine, but there are inconveniences. Theres are very thorough post that you can google search (groups.google.com) about the subject.
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I have bought seviral Grizzly table saws for both myself and others. Their quality has gone up in recent years and they are a good value.
Just a side note. I saw the new Rigid granite top saw the other day for the first time. A store employee was polishing the top. It wa so shiny and smooth! I am not sure how that translate into tablesaw function, but it was interesting.
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I looked at a granite top saw a couple of weeks ago. Not sure how I feel about it. The way I use my shop, I have a feeling there would be chips out of it within a week, and I don't like the idea of tippy-toeing around my tools.
Does anybody here have experience with the granite-top saurs?
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On Dec 31, 3:58pm, Dave Balderstone

Nope but an acquaintance has experience with granite cabinet tops. I think Dave's concern is valid because theirs didn't respond well to a dropped cast iron skillet.
Let's see..... skillet --- hammer !!!!
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wrote:

Nope but an acquaintance has experience with granite cabinet tops. I think Dave's concern is valid because theirs didn't respond well to a dropped cast iron skillet.
Let's see..... skillet --- hammer !!!! =============================== Not to worry, the only time I ever dropped a hammer, it always fell on my toes!
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Lee Michaels wrote:

That's only because you didn't have anything else valuable nearby. In this case, the hammer knows your toes will heal, but the granite top chip won't.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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