Cabinet Installation Question - Toe Kick

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snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home says...

There have been several illustrations of this in "This Old House" and "Fine Homebuilding" magazines over the past year or so. I am planning to do this when I get started on the kitchen remodel project (real soon now).
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<snip>
Having built 4 complete kitchens for different houses I've lived in, I find it difficult to understand the continuation of frame style construction. The last three I built were essentially Euro type construction and were definityly much faster to construct than the first which was frame. In Euro construction, which uses 3/4" sheet material for the sides, it is only necessary to make a cut out for the toe kick.
On the kitchen I am just finishing I made my own levellers from 1 1/2" angle iron and tapped for a 3/8" carriage bolt.
Bernard R
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"Bernard Randall" wrote in message

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It's like cars or colors, a matter of preference. I personally prefer the more traditional look of the modern "face frame" cabinet. Euro "frameless" cabinets have a more modern appearance to my eye.
One of the original intentions of the Euro style, "frameless" cabinet was portability for the European owner, who often took his cabinets with him when he changed houses. Now a days that style is unfortunately often used by cost cutting builders as an excuse to build an inferior product, and further justified by the crowd who thinks kitchen cabinets should only last about 10 to 15 years, at most.
Using modern construction techniques, there is really not much difference when building the actual boxes themselves. In my experience building both, the face frame adds considerable strength to the whole assembly.

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Depending upon the method of construction, the same goes with today's "face frame" style cabinet.
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I think you have that backwards. today's "euro" style cabinets are an offshoot of the bauhaus school, and were designed to be mass produced efficiently and assembled easily by *less* skilled labor.
the older style of cabinet, with face frames, which give the cabinet more strength independent of the wall or whatever it's bolted to, is a design that evolved from antiquity and served among other things to allow the cabinet to be carried from place to place. it's more like a piece of furniture. some of our "traditional" cabinet designs clearly illustrate this, such as the bathroom vanity with legs. it is a direct descendant of the dry sink...
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Quite the contrary ... it is you that has it "backwards".
The traditional kitchen cabinet was built into the structures walls, most often with fixed shelves, most often requiring the interior walls to be painted as part of the cabinet, most often with a frame and/or face frame, and were decidedly NON-portable.
The advent of the "frameless" Euro style cabinet made portability and ease of installation a design feature.
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On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:38:53 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@igetenoughspamalreadythanks.com wrote:

When I was in Switzerland, I was under the impression that a lot of Euro cabinets can be knocked down, ala Ikea style.
Barry
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"B a r r y" wrote in message

Your impression was correct. You don't see many North American kitchen cabinets, if any, moved from house to house (even the hybrid cabinet adopted by North American manufacturers and based on the European design), but with the European 32mm cabinet system, aka "frameless European cabinets", it is not uncommon to see their highly modular nature being utilized by European owners to take them from residence to residence in many countries.
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wrote:

Though commercial Euro often depends on mechanical fasteners and particle board. In my own case I inter-connect plywood sides with dovetailed rails, dado the base/shelf to the sides and front and back rails and use 1/4" ply in slots in the sides and rails for the back, the end result is a very stiff jointed and glued structure, especially when screwed to a counter top.
Needless to say mine are built to be integral to the house.
Bernard R
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I like surveying the site first and running a level line around the area where the cabinets are to be placed.
Back in the shop I'll taper some 3/4" ply for the fronts and backs of ladder frames to sit the boxes on (two thicknesses for the back and the front - framing lumber doesn't really cut it.) I cut the 3/4" ply crossmembers all at four inches of width and set them to the bottom of the frame.
If I still have to shim when I get onsite, I'll shim with pieces of step flashing - most of the boxes I've built over the last fifteen years or so get granite on them, and I don't want any compression from softwood shims.
I fasten the boxes to the frame only on the fronts and backs of the ladder.
Doing this I wind up with a very solid and quick installation - and it's easier to make money/time in the shop than in the field.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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I have used the leveling legs on several installs. They work great. I also built drawers and used plastic wheels like these:
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id 45&objectgroup_id=7&catid=6&filter=under%20bed
or go to Rockler and look up "bed box rollers"
This gave us a lot of extra space including one drawer (under the corner cabinet) that held all our Christmas wrapping paper from year to year.
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:50:13 -0400, "David Chamberlain"

I don't care for the levelers. I don't like having something mechanical in the mix that might go out of adjustment over time.
That's just me.
YMMV.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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snippage

Possibly dumb question: What do you mean by 'taper' in this case?
BTW, I like the idea of using doubled ply for the ladder frame. Much faster, and more consistent than the tubafours readily available...
Patriarch
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Thanks all for excellent ideas and advice!
bob

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