Buying used Stanley planes

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Hi,
I've have mostly power woodworking tools, but I'd like to do a few projects with handtools.
Would either of these planes be worthwhile: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item 0133545391 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item 0133512245
They both seem like a fair price so far. There's no mention of either being pre-war, though.
Mike
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upand_at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in

You can deal with the 'bay, or find a dealer you can trust. I do dealers better, because the terms are fair, they know what they are selling, and I get to inspect or send back each item. I also get a pretty quick turnaround, without auction competition. And I pay a higher price, often.
There's a number of folks selling planes over at sawmillcreek.com, on the neander boards, with decent reputations. At least drop by there for a look. Or look for the contacts for Pete Neiderberger on woodcentral.com. Or check with Pat Leach at www.supertool.com.
That having been said, I haven't bought a vintage plane in the last 6 or 8 of them. LV or LN, because I'm into the specialty range now...
Patriarch, acknowledging the slipperiness of the slope on which we tread...
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Okay, thanks for the advice.
Mike
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[..snip...]

[...snip...] Correction ... www.sawmillcreek.org
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Your post got me to thinking about some Baileys that have sat on a shelf in my shop for several years without being touched. I have a 3, 5, 5 1/4, and a 6 in better condition that the ones in the eBay listings; except that the 6 is missing the top part of the rear handle.
If you are interested, I could take some pictures.
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On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:32:41 -0700, upand_at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

No
What are you going to do with an #8 ? You certainly don't need a #8C

So don't start with the biggest and heaviest of the pack!
I've got a #8. Can't remember when I last used it - probably flattening a huge table top. I usually use my #7, because it's a really nice plane, and I've also got a #6 which is a more convenient size for most tasks. The #8 just doesn't get out much -- it's far too big and heavy.

No. It's probably a great plane, but it's a terrible ad. If you can't _see_ that the sole is in decent condition, you don't buy that one, you wait for the next one where you can see it.

They're both clearly pre-war. Read "Patrick's Blood and Gore" at supertool.com and any "Stanley plane dating flowchart" on the web. They'll give you a good start.
I'd suggest a starter set of:
#5 as a main bench plane,
#4 1/2 set up as a smoother (fine mouth, squared iron),
rough old junkyard #4 as a scrub (crowned iron, filed wide-open mouth, no more than $5 from the local dog pound) Or else a wooden horned scrub plane (if you can get these outside Europe)
Sprinkle with a good quality modern iron (not Stanley!) if you can't find original Sweethearts.
Also a brand new Lee Valley low-angle adjustable mouth block plane. Stanley blocks are nothing like as good, even the best.
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upand_at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

If you don't have much experience with planes, or very little you might want to consider just starting with new planes. If you've got lots of money to put towards this, then go to straight to either Lie-Nielson or Lee Valley, buy the very best and rest assured you've purchased a quality tool that will be ready to use out of the box.
If you don't have a lot of money or not sure if this is something you really want to get involved in, buy the following two types of planes new:
1)    Get something like a #3 bench plane. Woodcraft has a Groz[1] which goes for about $30. Or go to Amazon and get an Anant #3[2], also for about $30. I have the #3 Groz.
2)    Get some type of variant of the #9-1/2 block plane with adjustable mouth. Woodcraft has the Groz[3] variant for about $28 and you can get the Stanley[4] for about $37 online. I got my Stanley from the local Lowe's, and it was only about $30 (plus tax).
I recently got interested in doing this as well. I'm not necessarily interested in doing everything with hand tools, but I find it interesting to know how to do things with both hand and power tools. After playing around with a variety of different types of planes, the #3 bench and adjustable mouth block plane are the ones I find myself using the most frequently now. The #3 comes in handy after I cut or resaw something with the bandsaw. With this I can smooth the face of a piece fairly easily. This is especially handy when dealing with small stuff that would be too dangerous to manipulate with power tools. I use the block plane for trimming and cleaning joinery, such as after the glue-up of a dovetail or box joint, and need to get a tail or a pin flush.
After you get those two figured out, try making yourself a shooting board and or making your own Krenov style wooden planes.
[1]: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyidR76 [2]: (Amazon.com product link shortened)86169962&sr=1-1 [3]: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyidS38 [4]: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId169-355-12-920&lpage=none
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wrote:

For about the same money you can buy old Stanleys on eBay. The old Stanleys are better than the new ones.
R
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Thanks guys.
Mike
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The problem with that is you usually can't just purchase stuff on eBay. Instead there's the whole issue of dealing with auctions, bidding, keeping track of the auction, when you've been out bid, submitting a new bid, etc. Then there's the issue of having to trust that the person selling the item is actually going to deliver it to you. If you don't really need what you're bidding on, have the time to play the whole bidding game, and have no problem trusting whomever is selling the item, I suppose that's fine and you can actually get a decent deal. For myself, I'd rather be out in the shop making saw dust than trying to deal with all the vagaries of eBay auctions.
Flea markets, on the other hand, do seem to be a good source of old planes and if I see something I like, I can in fact "just buy it". I also like the fact that I can actually look at and properly inspect what's being offered for sale. I trust what I can see with my eyes and feel with my hands more than I do a picture on a web site.
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On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:20:16 -0500, "Michael Faurot"

That's if you still have that opportunity in your area.
In my area, flea markets have gone way downhill, to the point of being useless. Need a Harley shirt? Fake designer purse? The flea market is the place to go! The likelyhood of being busted for selling knock-offs is way less in a parking lot than on-line. For reputable sellers, with the most basic computer knowledge, eBay has changed the business forever. The non-computer literate vendors often get cleaned out by those who are, and in turn the tools get sold on-line.
eBay has revolutionized the antique and flea business model to the point that more and more vendors are unwilling to go sit there all weekend and quibble over nickels. In some cases, eBay put on live seminars and provided mentors to get these folks selling. I've been to "eBay University" via Interbike (bicycle industry), and the instructor-led courses are very well done.
I used to like flea markets as well, but for at least 3-4 years my local markets totally suck. The same goes for my local pawn shops.
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Michael Faurot wrote:

...
Other than the time and critical need thing, I've not found it a problem in general (eBay auction mecahnics, that is).
The trust issue I've not had a problem with -- I do look to see the seller's ratings and avoid those w/ any significant number of complaints at all -- for a suitable definition of "significant" that is somewhat variable.
The inspection thing can be a hassle if there's a chance of an item being visually ok but not really ok, granted. I tend to avoid those items and planes or other vintage tools would be an area of less than ideal "shopping experience". I've bought a couple of Stanley/Bailey's that way (nothing exotic) and been satisfied. But, I have been willing to let several go by that auctions got out of hand on, too.
If you really need something, flea markets have problems as well as there's no guarantee of them having what you're looking for at any given time unless you happen to be in the one or two places left that have a specific dealer -- where I am there's _no_ chance of finding anything useful as another poster has said -- I might as well go to the guy in the tractor-trailer parking lot tool sale...
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wrote:

Yes you can. There are eBay stores and Buy It Now auctions that let you buy the item immediately.

I can locate a plane far more quickly on eBay than making the rounds of flea markets and garage sales. eBay or any one of a number of web sites or programs can keep track of the auctions for you, notify you if you've been outbid, and submit bids for you at a pre-designated time.

Feedback. If someone has a 99.8% positive feedback rating and a couple of hundred transactions or more, it's extremely unlikely that they're going to screw you. If you buy from a seller that deals in tools and planes, then they'll know what they have and its condition and list it accordingly. If the seller doesn't know tools at all, maybe even misspells or misnames the item, you'd probably spend less but it's more of a risk.

If you really don't need what you're bidding on than it's really no different than killing some time watching TV and ordering a pizza.

I understand the sentiment. You'll never be 100% sure until you get your hands on it. As in most things in life, there are no guarantees, and 95% sure at a lower price with little effort is good enough. YMMV
R
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On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:21:05 -0500, "Michael Faurot"

Or just take 3 $10 bills and set fire to them
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On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 19:57:30 +0100, Andy Dingley

Funny! But true...
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Or just send them to me. :) I find your reaction puzzling, based on my own experiences with these planes. I own both Lee Valley/Veritas planes and these Groz planes. While the Groz planes are not as good as the ones from Veritas, they're good enough. I can do real work with them, more so than I could with the charred remains of $30 worth of paper money. Properly tuned and sharpened, the Groz planes can produce paper thin shavings. Yes, they do require some work to get properly tuned and sharpened, before they're going to be ready to go to work, but that'll be true for anything in this price range.
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Maybe they've gotten better. A couple of years ago, dug through all of the ones that the local Rockler had gotten, trying to find one that fit the definition of a kit. A total waste of time.
Life's too short.
Patriarch
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On Jul 28, 8:32 pm, upand_at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item 0133545391
Priced a bit high, maybe because of the corrugated sole.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item 0133512245
More reasonably priced, but no lateral lever, essential on a smoother if you intend to use it as a finishing tool.
Neither plane has a fore-aft frog adjuster screw. It'll take a while to get the throat set fine. Once you're there, don't change it. Ever.

Shop flea markets, and you can get a #8 smooth sole for $30, a #3 or #4 smoother for $15, tops. You can inspect them first hand. Ebay is a crapshoot.
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wrote:

I have a #5 Stanley that has no frog adjuster screw. It is a #7 and was made around 1890. It is a pleasant plane to use and I promise you I would require more than $30 for it. It is not for sale and is in a case in my office. Some of the planes your kibitzing about may very well be good oldies and worth the money. If you see a no. 8 for $30, jump on it. I've never seen a bargain plane at a flea market, but I've had good luck with E-bay planes. I have a #3, #5 1/2 (a favorite), a #5, #6, 604, 605, and a 607. They are all E-bay planes and all are users. :-)
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My two most used planes are a patent 1905 #5, no frog adjuster screw, and a VERY worn looking patent 1913 #18 knuckle cap block. The #18, I paid $3.00 for at a flea market in 1978. The 5, I was given.
What did you pay for the Bedrocks?
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