Buying Online - Hard Maple and Oak

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Hard Maple and Oak lumber are hard to sources in Central Valley CA. I know Macbeath in Oakland, too expensive and I don't have a lumber rack on my truck. Have no choice decide to buy Online. Thinking of buying mix 100 to 200BF (FAS) Hard Maple (80%) and Oak (20%) in addition to plywood for 2014 Spring projects. Anyone recommendation or advice? Thanks
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"WD" wrote:

I use Anderson Int'l for all my plywood (Die Board).
They ship all over the world so shipping from Los Angeles up and over the grapevine to you is NBD.
As far as hardwood is concerned, there are several good sources around L/A but it has been so long since I bought any my info would be stale.
Ever think about renting a truck and loading up to spread the shipping costs.
BTW, MacBeath was always non competitive to the smaller customer here in L/A.
Good luck.
http://www.aitwood.com/
Lew
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wrote:

Thanks Lew, I checked Online lumbers: "Hardwood to Go," "Steve Wall lumber," "Advantage Lumber" and others. I am keen calling Hardwood to go, they bundle and don't seem to have plywood for cabinets. Advantage Lumber good price for their closeouts. Really have no interest in exotics stuff, just plains hardwood to upgrade old kitchen's cabinets and garage. Wish I'm back at Kansas City, where I buy lumbers from Liberty Hardwood.
I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced buying Online, nearest CA to reduced shipping cost. Thanks again.
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I'm in Florida so the places where I buy - usually in North Carolina - wouldn't be cost effective for you due to the shipping. However, on occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you, you might keep it in mind.
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dadiOH
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What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
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On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
Bill
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On 11/15/2013 10:59 AM, Bill wrote:

Regardless, what difference would that make?
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It's my understanding that _when_ the wood is harvested (winter vs. summer) affects the quality of the wood (sap running vs. sap not running).
I know that we always harvested logs sent to the lumber mill on the farm during the late fall (nov).
scott
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On 11/15/2013 11:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the perimeter of the tree, no?
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On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote: ...

Yes, but in the "sapwood" region not the cambium layer if that's what you were thinking of. The new growth occurs there but the sap flow is actually in the woody portion--that's why it is called sapwood. (Well, that's a DOH! :) ).
The bark isn't living and provides protection. The inner bark layer is composed of live tissue that is the return path downward for nutrients. Between the bark and wood is the cambium layer which is responsible for increases in tree diameter by creating new annual rings.
The annual rings of wood are composed of large pores that carry water up to the leaves. The outer 4 to 20 annual rings are usually alive and light-colored. Wood in the center of a large tree (referred to as heartwood) is composed of dark-colored, dead cells used for storage. Ray cells cut across the annual rings; they distribute food to living cells.
So, while lumber is harvested year 'round and it really doesn't affect the quality of the timber, some weight and drying may be saved if wait for a major fraction of the sap to return to ground in fall. But, November probably isn't sufficiently late most places in the US to make any significant difference yet I'd guess.
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On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:

Understood but the sapwood is also on the perimeter of the log/tree and the part that is typically avoided for uniformity as its color is typically off color from the majority of the inner section of the tree.

I can see possible benefits to the harvester but to the woodworker what would be the difference?
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On 11/15/2013 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:

True, but...
Sapwood is _not_ a defect in hardwood grading -- it all counts the same. It's just the end-user may find it of less utility.
Walnut is probably the most known of the US furniture woods for its extreme variation. But, you'll pay the same bd-ft price based on the net dimensions from the mill for the sapwood as for the center heartwood. Then again, there are practical rules in grading that they can't selectively cull the sapwood into a bundle and hide it, either--they'll have a problem w/ their customer base big time if try that.
OTOH, as an analogy, in a former life did online coal ash analyzers...one use for them that was always a little unnerving was at loadout stations where suppliers actually used them to blend clean coal with dirty to make an overall trainload hit right at or as just under the contract ash content as possible...
I did get to thinking a little more on the practicalities -- I've not actually got any direct data to know and the larger mills in VA from which I used to buy had so much on hand it was often months or even a couple of years from the time a log was felled before it was milled, but on those volumes even a small reduction in input energy costs would really add up to major bucks.
When I was there and doing that much buying, though, energy prices were pretty far down on anybody's radar as a cost factor. They might be more for trying to optimize that now, I don't know...
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On 11/15/2013 1:30 PM, dpb wrote:

Ok, to get back on track, Bill indicated
I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source of the wood.
I asked,
Regardless, what difference would that make?
So what I want to know is what difference does it make when harvesting winter or summer wood whether the winter ring is dark and or the summer ring is light?
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On 11/15/2013 1:49 PM, Leon wrote:
...big snip of what is apparently unintended context for brevity...

As explanation of where I was coming from as a prelude, reading in context what shows up in the reader here surely looks like the question was regarding the sapwood and moisture and timing of felling...if not, sorry.
The answer to the above question is "nothing". It is what it is owing to the species characteristics.
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I wasn't talking about when the tree is harvested (nor about sap wood) but about the conditions as it grew.
It's a matter of the ring sizes, both absolute and relative to one another. A tree that grows rapidly has wider rings than the same type of tree that grows slowly and lumber from it will appear different...wider rings, more difference between light and dark. Like that. Long summers/short winters lumber with wider light rings.
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On 11/15/2013 3:19 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Oh, well that makes sense.
Still, Bill indicated the darkness of the rings was maybe directly related to the season, I was wondering if he thought that would matter when selecting the boards.
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It is. The darker wood is from when the tree was growing slowly. What I called "winter wood"; a better phrase is "late wood".

Depends on what one wants I guess :)
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dadiOH
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On 11/15/2013 5:34 PM, dadiOH wrote: Snip

Boy I think this is getting out of hand. LOL
Bill indicated
I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
Regardless of when the wood is harvested the color of the rings light and dark will always be present. IMHO, given his comment about the color of the part of the ring being dependent on the season in which it was growing, one should not be able to look a board cut in winter or summer and be able to tell when it cut.
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Right.
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dadiOH
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Good question. I don't believe I ever asked my Grandfather that one.
scott
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