Buying A Table Saw

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On 17 Jan 2005 11:06:31 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@surfree.com wrote:

USENETknows all too well the dynamics of a competitive marketplace.
USENET only wants people, educated as they may be in matters of ecconomics not very well educated in the knowledge of power tool operation and construction, to know what they are buying.
USENET knows the problems Ridgid and Ryobi owners have with getting their tool serviced and doesn't want or like to see people spend premium dollar on an inferior tool.
USENET has also mentioned that these tools have their place. In the hands of "yuppei housewives" as mentioned by one other poster to this group.

RIDGID does not have a sustainable COST advantage over the other manufacturers. RYOBI does. But, again, this is not the issue. The issue at hand is:
Are RIDGID and RYOBI comperable tools? RIDGID in price? YES. In quality? NO.
RYOBI is not in the same league. TOTALLY different animal.

Again, prices are not the issue. The issue here is:
WHICH IS THE BETTER BUY? $500.00 SPENT IN RIDGID TOOLS OR $500.00 SPENT (ON EQUAL FUNCTIONING TOOLS) IN TOOLS BY MAKITA, DEWALT OR PORTER CABLE?
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Usenet states:

Well, actually, maybe. The OP was looking for a table saw, something DeWalt and Makita and PC make, but not necessarily in a type the OP wants. And if he does want a job site saw, the Ridgid is actually at least as good as, and in many respects better than, the ones turned out by the above three. Quality is similar. There are more features. It is somewhat easier to use. Price is sensible. When it comes to heavier saws, the DeWalt hybrid is a good one, and comes, stripped, for nearly $900. The complete Ridgid TS3650 is a contractor's saw with a built in mobile base that comes complete for a shade under $600. It is about as good as any contractor's saw out there right now.

I'm not sure what you're stating here. OK. They're comparable in price. Except they're not. And certainly the Ridgid line of table saws differs from the Ryobi line, so one wouldn't expect too great price similarities.
Are you stating that Ridgid is lesser in quality than Ryobi?
Charlie Self "One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above that which is expected." George W. Bush
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On 18 Jan 2005 09:50:30 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Look see for yourself. Here are a bunch of Ridgid owners and they don't even like them.
http://www.ridgidforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic ;f;t0642
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I would love to know how Ryobi has a cost advantage over its competitors. I think they sell a lesser product for a lower price. For many, the product works fine and offeres good value, for others it does not.

If prices are not the issue, then why is it the key component of your argument? You have presupposed your conclusion in the above statement - ie. the tools are "EQUAL FUNCTIONING" (no need to shout, by the way), and they cost the same, so buy the brandname. The better buy depends on the tool in question - not every Dewalt is a whizbang.

I do not think the general public is even aware of Ridgid as a plumbing toolmaker, and they only see the tool at HD, so they are well aware that it is a housebrand. In fact, this may lead to some cross-branding synergies resulting in a cost advantage, since HD promotes Ridgid and vice versa. One might argue that a company like Delta, which contracts out manufacturing to plants all over, is less and less a brand name that can be relied on as a badge of quality. Plus the fact that Black & Decker has rolled it up, suggests that brand name will mean less and less in the tool market.

Ridgid does well in Fine Woodworking reviews, often garnering the "Best Buy" slot, with the jointer, the bandsaw, and the sander all doing well.

uninformed public.
HD and Lowes have overall profit margins in the 6-7% range, which seems decent, but does not reach the "hand over fist" threshold, IMO. Remember that they constrain one another - they compete head to head, unless you believe that they collude to dupe the foolish masses...
...
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Usenet wrote:

I'm sure you do.
Therefore, please explain to me how my "little" suppliers, such as Coastal and Tools Plus, are selling ALL Makita, Porter Cable, DeWalt, Delta, Bosch, etc... for lower prices than Home Depot and Lowes, if the big boxes are selling said tools at a 6" markup?
You wrote this a few days back:
"Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know because I sell tools and I see the price lists. NO BUSINESS CAN OPERATE ON A 6% MARKUP!! "
Thanks, Barry
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:25:44 GMT, B a r r y

Barry,
Two old sayings come to mind when it comes to you:
1) You can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink.
2) A fool and his money are soon parted.
Buy your Ridgid. Your money, not mine. Have fun!! :)
Your friend, USENET
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vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
He leaps!
Is this your first table saw? If so, do you really need one?
Serious question. There are a few people here who started to post agreement.

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snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net writes:

Watch it there, Buddy! <g> There's a lot of us "housewives" out there who use woodworking tools (and do it quite successfully). It's been my experience that those "housewives" are more discriminating as a whole than are their male counterparts. Most us ladies tend to buy tools, of any kind, more carefully being very aware they will last us for a long, long time. We, more than men, tend to keep the same ol' reliables around for decades so choose more carefully in the beginning. Men, as a rule, tend to want bigger and better to keep up with their buddies. Nothing wrong with that because they buy and manufacturers come up with better (hopefully!) to sell to them and we all benefit.
There are, of course, exceptions to that, but looking at the wide spectrum, that is the way it is.
Advertisers know this, especially auto-related, which is why it is so less common see a "hunk" in car advertisements. They know most female buyers aren't going to be swayed by a good-looking body/face to buy something that's not best for their uses. Yet, women make more than 50 percent of auto-buying decisions. Go figure.
All that said knowing full well that relatively few women will ever buy a power tool. Heck, we don't need to; when the man gets itchy feet, he goes out the door and we get all of his! (Of course, in my case, he rarely used them anyway, he just bought them to do various projects that rarely were ever done. I do very much appreciate that he looked for the best quality we could afford at the time, and all U.S.A. made.)
Glenna Never shopped at WM and likely never will.
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:48:59 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) wrote:

Ma'am,
I am not the one who refered to anyone as a "yuppie housewife." I was merely quoting a poster to my original response.
I agree with you. The ego kicks in when it comes to most of these guys out here. This is why at least a couple of them are getting so defensive over their Ridgid tools. Hey, it keeps Home Depot in business. That must be a good thing in these guy's minds. Unfortunately, they don't realize... Home Depot is slowly gaining momentum in almost every aspect of home building and mantinance, something some of these guys do for a living. Eventually, Home Depot will be the only place you'll be able to buy your power tools, gardening equipment, have a roof installed, windows installed, doors installed, counter tops installed, carpet installed, tile installed, etc. You can buy all your materials there all your tools there and if you don't want to do that, they will do the work for you! These people are patronizing their soon-to-be #1 competition! They're already HUGE, they're getting bigger, and these people are fools not to see that. Soon, they won't be competition for Home Depot, they'll be PART of Home Depot's Pro Installation Team or whatever they call themselvs.
Some of my best customers are female. I appreciate their business. And, I try my best to advise them on the best tool for the job. My posts to this group were never intended to bash anyone (person, group of people, or otherwise). They have been intended to inform people that Ridgid tools are not all they are cracked up to be. I have stated before that Ridgid tools have their place. And that is, right along side the Craftsman, Harbor Freight, and Black and Decker tools that sell in the lower price ranges. For the most part, they are cheaply made tools. They do not hold up under the rigors of regular, heavy use. There are tools out there that will.
I do not advise any of my customers (male or female) to buy Ridgid tools. I don't advise my customers to buy Hitachi. Not because Hitachi makes poor quality or over priced tool, but because in MY area Hitachi does not have good LOCAL service. Hitachi, Makita, Dewalt, Bosch, Porter Cable, Bostitch, in general, all make very good tools. Ridgid, however, does not. They have very poor after the sale service. Their service centers (all authorized - no factory) only get paid on their labor once a year (this is why most repairs take a minimum of 3 months to complete). They discontinue tools and within 4 years parts are no longer available. Their only distributor is Home Depot.
Now, I don't know, but, is there the possibility that somewhere up the corporate chain, one of the parent companies of Home Depot is also the parent company of Ridgid?
My dad always told me not to put all my eggs into one basket. Yet, it's awefully funny that Home Depot is the only distributor of Ridgid and Ryobi tools. One BIG egg. One BIG basket.
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"Glenna Rose" wrote in message

Witness that you left out the "yuppie" part ... a big difference, and the existence of whom can not be denied.

I'm thinking you've perhpas been watching way too many TV commercials.
Granted "doofus americanus" (you know, the guy with the constipated look on his face, shaking his fist in the air, forcefully exclaiming "YEAH! whenever some over paid sports figure scores) does exist and is rightly portrayed in many of them these days .. but I seriously doubt the species buys that many tools, and you will find about as many of them here as "yuppie housewifes".

For an alternate take, Google the countless tool buyng threads wRec down through the years, most of them dripping with "discrmination".
--
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snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net writes:

Silly, I knew you didn't. You merely brought it forward which is why the devilment in me could not resist. Hopefully you noticed the grin directly below it.
I apologize if seemed I was annoyed or offended; I wasn't.

I so agree with you! I do shop at Home Depot, but for only a very small percentage of what I buy (and usually when everyone else is closed). There are many reasons for that, the chief one being I like having folks I can relay on stay in business. It's our local lumber stores that really know what they are doing and consistently offer good advice. I've been fortunate to never be treated in a condescending manner by our "local boys" (not even 20+ years ago) which I cannot always say that for the big name warehouse types. I'm always amazed at the knowledge each individual has at the local stores; it's not just one area but many areas of knowledge. Of course, I do have my favorites and have been known to leave and revisit another time when one of those favorites is there.

Perhaps I can represent at least some of my "sisters" in saying thank you. :-)

It seems doubtful anyone would think differently.
One of the things I appreciate about this group is the acceptance of everyone, including us gals. :-)
I am a utilitarian woodworker who will someday be a real woodworker, but likely not for a while. Victoria's cedar chest is still many projects away. I have lots more to relearn and learn before building heirlooms for those two precious granddaughters. My advantage is that I know I'm basically ignorant about much of what I need to know; the next advantage is that I'm willing to learn. Then comes many hours of effort, probably some failures and, hopefully, many successes.

Love your type of person! And, yes, even a good product can be "bad" if it doesn't get support. Customer support is an important part of my purchases. One of the reasons I am now primarily a Mac user is because of the incredible local support of fellow Mac users in our area. P.M.U.G. is awesome for that sort of thing. It's great to be able to call a stranger and have him/her take the time to help which is what customer support is all about.
I stopped shopping at Sears ten or more years ago where I had shopped for decades because of an attitude about a defective weed cutter. The tool lasted only ten minutes; I returned it. The second one lasted less than half an hour. I returned it; the salesman told me they would not replace it again! My response to that was not the most ladylike, but to paraphrase: "You sold me a product and it *will* work or you *will* refund my money. I did not, and will not, pay for a tool of any kind that lasts less than an hour, which in this case two didn't last more than half an hour." It was accompanied by a most direct and icy expression from me to the little jerk, leaving no question even in that little moron's life that he was not going to intimidate me. Additionally, I told him if they would bother to purge the defective batch of weed cutters, folks like me would have no need to return them repeatedly. Oh, well.
In fairness, I had to go there to get a part for my router a few months ago. The salesman was extremely helpful. Not only did he have an excellent customer attitude, but he also had a brain!
BTW, if you should ever want to relocate your business, consider our area of the world!
Glenna
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Usenet writes:

You got that right. You don't know.

That's a business decision for Ryobi's parent company, and they seem to like it, so far.
Charlie Self "One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above that which is expected." George W. Bush
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