Buy American? Starrett measuring tools.....

[J. Clarke]

Depends on the tool and the product line. Their Craftsman-brand hand tools are still pretty good. In their portable power tools they have "Craftsman" and "Craftsman Professional", with "Craftsman Professional" being quite good--they're often major brands with a Sears label and possibly slightly changed trim. Their current Craftsman Professional jigsaw is a black Bosch for example. Sears also carries selected models from other brands. Their stationary power tools are for the most part not very good, but they're apparently trying to turn that around.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Not compared to the 40 year old Craftsman tools I have. They have been cheapened and I won't buy them.

[J. Clarke]

I'm curious. What deficiencies do you observe in, say, a new open-end wrench compared to the 40 year old open-end wrench?

[Bob Schmall]

I just picked up a NEW Starrett 6" square for about 20% off retail, including shipping) but I had to trust a guy on (gulp) eBay.

Bob

[Bob Schmall]

I got the aluminium (soft metal, Cody) and it's a peach.

Bob

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Functional style The older wrenches were easier to use, the heads had a better angle. The box wrenches had a true offset, not just a bend on the end allowing you to put more torque on a nut. The newer ones are cheaper to make.

Some of the better screwdrivers do have a better grip (rounded for the hand) than the old ones.

The new sockets do have the size imprinted in very large numbers. That is handy for the weekend warrior, but a pro can sight the 9/16 over the 5/8 at twenty feet in the dark. The new sockets are cheaper in other ways though.

[Tom Veatch]

I agree if the measure is of brand recognition. I must respectfully disagree with the "perfect sense" if the survey is supposed to be an objective measure of quality.

Note the column headed "salience". That is the percentage of responders who claimed to know enough to have a valid opinion. I didn't see any indication that the "non-salient" opinions were excluded from the tally. Therefore I assume Joe Homeowner's opinion was counted whether or not he claimed to be "aware and informed enough to rate the brand".

"In my ("salient", "non-salient" - choose one) opinion that invalidates the survey for anything other than a "now isn't that nice" exercise.

Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA

[Mark & Juanita]

Um, maybe killing that Saturday in the shop *making* something. But then,I forgot, you have the sawdust-free shop.

[Mark & Juanita]

Keeter, Sorry about that, I really meant to include a smiley at the end of that comment. No disrespect nor derision were intended, only a slight amount of ribbing.

Just getting back to where teranews is posting again.

[Mark & Juanita]

Softer material and looser tolerances for a couple of things. I have seen some cheap sockets strip themselves on hard bolts. Conversely, I have seen cheap box-end wrenches round over nuts because they are too loose and slip around the nut instead of tightly fitting it. I have also seen cheaper open-end wrenches flex open around nuts and also round them over.

[J. Clarke]

Are you talking about open end wrenches or something else? If open-end theirs seem to have the same "angle" as every other manufacturer and the new ones seem to have the same angle as the ones I used in the '60s.

Actually, they have both kinds.

A pro who doesn't need bifocals maybe.

Such as?

[Unisaw A100]

Zat's OK. Smiley or no smiley my come back was/would have been, why yes, all my saw dust is free.

Or something like that.

Muzzles suck, don't they?

UA100

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The method of forging them.

I don't recall all th e details of the differences as I've not bothered to look at them for a few years now. Find an old tool set and take it to the store with you. Chances are, you'll buy another brand after making the comparisons.

[J. Clarke]

Does the new method make them inferior in some way?

So you are basing your views on the performance of current production vs old production on examing tools in a store? You've not used the current production and found them lacking?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Yes, the inside of the socket is different and affects the epth it can use.

I have a couple of the combination wrenches. I used them. They are lacking. They are not as good as my old ones.

Since you seem intent on finding all the details, go buy a couple of the new tools and then stop by my house. I'll get out my original 40 year old Craftsman toolbox, all the tools (most of them) I still have from the original set and well try them out, one by one. You can then decide from your own experience which set is better. I have a couple of things to do on my car so we can give them an honest workout. Is Saturday OK for you? Ed

[J. Clarke]

Odd. All of mine seem to be relieved to the full depth of the socket--the only thing that's going to restrict the depth is the drive itself.

But what was the nature of the lack?

Where are you located? Might take you up on that if it's not too far. You drink beer?

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

You ain't kidding. Somewhere about last Wednesday, I was able to read rec.ww, but all attempts to post resulted in connection timeouts. I wrote Teranews "help" desk the following request for help (BTW, I have the paid account, not the free account):

To which the ever-helpful folks at Teranews had the following response:

"All 3.95 one time setup fee ( free accounts ) use the free.teranews.com on port 119 news server only in your news client. All monthly billed accounts use the news.teranews.com news server on port 119 or alt.teranews.com on port 443 in your news client only. Login to the manage accounts area with your username and password to verify it says active before your username and password will work."

Somehow, I think a "help-bot" is the only help available at Teranews. It probably keyed off my signature that included the verbiage: Username:

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Not on the replacement 3/4" I just looked at. About half way up the inside there is a shoulder that would stop the head. Maybe they changed them again.

Its a touchy feely thing. You can't get into the same spots and leverage because of the angle of the ends and the grip does not seem as good in use.

I'm in northeast CT. Yep, I even have a bottle of chili beer (with the chili pepper inside) if you want to give it a try.

[Layne]

Yes. IF you buy the older Craftsman tools. I asked my dad to send me one of me late grandfather's combo square. I was disappointed to see "Craftsman" etched into it...BUT, was surprised at how good it was once I started using it! It was probably bought in the the 50s, 60s or

70s when Craftsman tools were made well.

Won't be buying a Starret or Mitutoyo combo square for a while,

Layne

[J. Clarke]

Sounds good. Unfortunately I find myself paying by the mile until Monday (seems an oil change turned into a $2k repair job drat it all). Rain check?