Bruce Johnson & Safety

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

I don't watch woodworking shows, as I don't watch much TV. Last night, I was channel surfing in bed, as I'm out of reading material. I've seen negative references to Bruce Johnson posted here before, but I had no idea what you folks were talking about.

I really can't believe Bruce still has all his appendages!

First I watched him crosscut on a table saw. Each time he cut a board, he pulled it BACK through the blade. I don't know about the rest of you, but after the board passes MY blade, it's cut.

Now for the killer! After cutting a board, he pulls it back through the blade and stops, leaving the board sitting in the miter gauge, an inch or so from the _still under power blade_. Leaving the work sitting there he removes his hands to get a tape measure. The saw is _still_ running. Next, he measures the already cut board, swinging is right hand back and forth while he talks. His hand is swinging within INCHES of the spinning saw blade, because he's making eye contact with the camera while he talks!!!

I swear he trimmed some of the little hairs off the back of his hand!

I can understand not wanting to reset the camera shot by going away from the saw to measure, but leaving it running?

Any day I fully expect to see video of him losing a body part on Consumption Junction.

Barry

[Brent Beal]

Will probably never see this because they keep showing the same tired and worn out segments every month. Maybe there is another reason for not making any newer shows??????????????

[George M. Kazaka]

Hey Barry who the hell is Bruce Johnson?

Everyone has there own level of safety in the shop and using any machine The more you work at it the more confidence you get, as long as that confidence does not let one loose their respect for the machine From what you explained I don't see anything wrong in what he was doing, I sometimes watch what another in my shop is doing while running boards thru the machine I always have a sense of where the blade is and my hands are. I have never been known to be the safest person around but I do respect the machine and I have picked a few fights with the saw blade and once with the shaper, Yes I lost those fights but I can still go home every night and count to ten (Okay 9-7/8) without taking my shoes off.

I have told many that worked for me to not do what I do but do what I say.

Hear is a web site that will blow some of you away this saw has been around for several years that I know of, I have heard that the developers have tried to sell it to both Delta and Powermatic and neither company wants anything to do with it.

[RKON]

That is awesome !! I would consider buying one of their saws when I'm ready to move up from my Delta Contractor saw. Thanks for the Link.

wrote

[George M. Kazaka]

[RKON]

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

Maybe he did cut off a limb.

Barry

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

He has a "how-to" TV show.

Agreed. However, anytime you are instructing anyone, you owe it to them to demonstrate the safest possible method. What they do later is up to them.

Anyone on TeeVee should demonstrate safe and correct methods.

Barry

[George M. Kazaka]

This I fully agree with

[George M. Kazaka]

I'm aware that the company is manufacturing there own saws It is not what there original Intention was, they were forced into it because they have had no takers. Go through there entire site they list all the companies manufacturing saws for the public to write to them for this feature. They are hoping that the all the folks purchasing saws will somehow have an effect on there decsion to utilize this feature. I am sure the lawyers are yelling don't touch it, what happens if say delta puts out a model with this feature and it fails and some sucker loose's a finger because he was being an idiot thinking he could not get hurt. In our I'm not responsible for my own actions society just think of the ramifications. ANd think of some employer that puts one in there shop and an emplyee gets hurt wow there will not be enough zeros on the settlement check

I really think that this is an awesome invention and may never see the market in a big way. This unit has been shown at all the industrial machinery shows and it draws big crowds and still employers are not looking for it

Time will surely tell

[Swingman]

What you may have missed is the heated discussion on this forum in the past couple of years or so whereby this company tried to make an end run around the saw manufacturer's reluctance to incorporate the device by having the government mandate the use of the device on all new saws sold in the US.

I could be wrong, but judging from what I've read of your posts, you don't seem like the kind of guy who would want to be forced to use/buy the device by government edict, whether you wanted to or not.

[Silvan]

Hafta admit I do that a lot with my crosscut sled. If I'm cutting a board into 12" chunks or whatever, I'll set a stop, push through, pull back, take the piece off, move the work up, repeat. Taking the piece off on the far side of the blade, where I'm reaching over it, strikes me as a lot more dangerous. Even if I were patient enough to cut the machine off and wait for the blade to stop between cuts, I don't like to do that. My blade runs reasonably true at speed, but when it's spinning up or slowing down, it flaps from side to side dramatically, and wallows out the kerf in the sled. Even avoiding that as much as possible, the kerf is quite V shaped, and useless as a reference for figuring out where the blade is going to cut.

(Yeah, my saw does suck. Indeed, indeed, indeed.)

[Swingman]

Not so bad of an issue with a cross cut sled on 90d cuts if you're careful ... but, at least to me, a big NO NO with a miter gauge.

On that same line, and if I am cutting absolutely precise miters, I do not pull the sled back when cutting miters on my TS miter sled, but instead turn the saw off and let the blade stop before removing the work piece.

I've ruined too many miters by just the slightest whisk of the blade hitting the workpiece on the backstroke. For the 60 seconds, total, it takes for four cuts, allowing the blade to come to a complete stop has saved me more than a few hundred dollars worth of stock.

But, as they say, YMMV more than my .02.

[RKON]

George:

I guess you can say "damn if you do, damn if you don't" from a manufacturers perspective.

The class action lawyers could be already lining up because there was a safety solution available to avoid the accidents and they could argue that the manufacturers were looking to make the almighty buck at the expense of some poor woodworking Joe-Bag-of-Doughnuts.

They already provide a cover and splitter for stock table saws that suck. Everyone in the industry knows that zero clearance throat plates prevent kickback in certain circumstances and what do they cost? But they are not provided a stock with table saw purchases.It's all about the almighty buck.

If you look at the auto industry and without the government intervening on seat belts,crash protection, and airbags we would be facing higher causality rates on our roads. Nobody I know buys Volvo's because they are sportier than a BMW.

I read recently that Health Insurers are looking at ways to minimize risk with their policies by limiting coverage on their insured who have dangerous hobbies. This is another attempt for them reduces claims and expenses. Can you imagine them classifying woodworking as a hazardous hobby?

Where does it stop nobody knows. I hope that SAW STOP makes traction with other manufacturers and their own product line.

Rich

[Doug Miller]

This was discussed at great length here twice during the last year or year and a half. Search Google for all the gory details.

I e-mailed SawStop and asked them if they had actually tested with a finger. The company president wrote back and said that he had, himself, stuck a finger in a blade. I told him he has bigger stones than I do.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

[George M. Kazaka]

Yes I Did miss that I have only been with the Rec for several months now. And Yes Your right, about me opposing the Goverment to force this or anything else upon me as a person or to any Company I am not saying this as a Employer with a business, That has nothing to do with, I basically work by mysef and have a couple of helpers, they do not touch the saw, they are not qualified and I have no reason to train them to do so.

Basically I am against the goverment telling me as a person that I have to do something because "they" Think I will be safer for it.

I know that a lot of people think that all employers do not care about there employee's, that is not so they are very concious of safety issues and do not need people taking chances in dangerous situations. Remember corporations are driven by the botom line, to have an employee hurt and have to pay for his medical bills in one way or another plus the loss of his/her productivity effecrs the bottom line.

As I said I think this Invention is awesome but come right down to it I do believe that it will end up developing Dis-respect for the tool it is incorporated with.

Accidents will always happen that is why they are called accidents, they will never be stopped, The majority are caused by, Rushing, Inexperience, arrogonce as in Hell i watched so and so doing it , it looks easy i can do that. Look at teen age car accidents and why, attitude, the felling of it can't happen to me because I am skilled, lack of experience, no respect. How many on this list that are 60 or 50 and remember how they drove like a freakin nut when they firt got their licsence, now preaching safety to their own children, Hmmmmm No differance with woodworking tools, I can't begin to tell you my attitude when i started working in my Uncles shop when i was 12, Hell i knew that I could use those machines it looked sooooo easy watching the other guys doing it. I was left in the shop alone a few times to clean up and told not to touch the machines Ya right what an opportunity first time to see a peice of wood go flying across the shop

Anyway sorry to make this so long

[Mark]

I have to disagree. There are no such things as accidents.

An accident is something that can't be foreseen. I have yet to see a situation where the participants couldn't have seen the negative outcome.

The concept of 'accident' allows people the illusion they couldn't have done something to prevent or stop an action, it allows people to escape responsibility. It allows them to remain clueless.

[Silvan]

Oh no, not this again. Isn't this horse dead and turned into glue yet? :)

[Silvan]

Go to the local prison and pick up a couple of child molesters. Less cruel than using rats.

[George M. Kazaka]

Are you realy living in a Glass Bubble and have never had anything considered an Accident happen to You. Or don't you believe in Reality That is the most absurd statement I have ever heard "There are no such things as accidents" Its the cause of the accident that can have many differances.

In most accidents I know what i could have done to prevent it, I have cut both my thumbs on the table saw and to this day I cannot figure out what i did, At the time I was operating simple stuff and not pulling some shit that i have been known to do. That was over twelve years ago and to this day I cannot figure out what the hell happened I still will re-enact what i was doing in both instances to see what i could have done to cause the Mishap. About 3 or 4 years ago i took a swan dive off a ten foot ladder and again I do not know what the hell i did to cause the fall . Again I was not doing anything stupid that i am capable of doing.

Any other time I was either rushing or doing something stupid or not thinking. I know they were my fault and because i call them an accident does not mean i don't take the responsibility of my own actions.