Bosch Reaxx Table Saw

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On 9/25/2015 5:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I believe migrant workers and their families, including kids, work in the fields to harvest.
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On 9/25/2015 4:55 PM, Baxter wrote:

Oh Well...

Absolutely if that is they way you want to look at it.

Now you are being emotional and speculating and using what if's. I deal with product facts information. I suppose one could find a problem with some kind of exploitation with most anything you might purchase.
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wrote:

Emotions? Perhaps but there are several companies I refuse to do business with because the way they do business is counter to my interests. Sony, for instance. I haven't bought anything with the Sony name on it since the rootkit debacle. Any company who would even consider such a thing gets crossed off my list.

"Rights" and "right" are only close in spelling bees.

How many monopolies do I support? Dunno of any.

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That is ok IMHO, I will not do business in the foreseeable future with HP because of the problems I had with all 3 of their printers an their service. Yours and mine are valid reasons for making decisions. We were both actually affected.

How about the government you send your hard earned dollars to? :-)

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On 9/25/2015 2:11 AM, Leon wrote:

Government monopoly is called socialism. You can't choose not to support it on principle. This is what SawStop tried to impose on the world. It is not, as you say, the American way.
So now, my principles tell me to shoot the bird at Gass.
--
Jack
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On 9/24/2015 10:48 AM, Leon wrote:

Well, I partially agree with you, but my decision is not based solely on emotions (principles) I also know, for a fact, that I have been using table saws for going on 60 years with zero safety gadgets, and have not once nicked a finger, cut of a hand, or killed myself. There are 40,000 motor vehicle deaths in the US every year, and most of them could be prevented by simple crash cages, crash helmets and so on. I take my changes dying with cars, I reckon after 60 years of sawing, I'm not overly worried about loping off a pinkie.

The American way is to make a better product, and they will come to your door. He made the product, then tried to force everyone to use it via government mandate.

Actually, someone eles, (Clark?) called him an asshole, I just went with that.

Yes, thus me agreeing with Clark that the guy is an asshole. Asshole is just a simple way of saying what I really think about him, and I don't really give a damn if he is the nicest, or the worst guy on the planet.
Ignorance is bliss. There

A principle is based on what you know, what I don't know, well, I don't know.

I always thought the brake was $70, I read your post somewhere that it was $90, so I rounded it off to $100 (with taxes?) So shoot me.

If I needed the tech, I would buy the Bosch simply on the fact it works, and is NOT Saw Stop. I might add that when the SS first came out, I looked at one at a Saw store show room and it looked like a nice saw. I wasn't in the market, so didn't buy one. I didn't really care all that much about the safety crap, just not a big concern for me then or now. I did like the overall fit and finish, much as I (emotionally) hate to admit it.

I read all over the place, including, I believe, from your very own keyboard that triggering the device destroys the blade. Considering the importance of a true running blade, I can readily see how this dramatic event would render a blade useless, and either in need of expensive repairs or replacement if not using the worlds most expensive saw blade.

By "understand" I assume your mean you are making an assumption?

If you were a man of principle, you would not do business with someone that violates your principles, ie, an asshole. You don't mind his business tactics, I do, simple as that.
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On 9/20/2015 5:41 AM, J. Clarke wrote: Snip

Does anyone know for a fact know what Gass asked for in license fees?
Considering the fact that when other brand vehicles offered anti lock brakes that this option was offered mostly on the top of the line vehicles and at a pretty premium additional cost, there was plenty of wiggle room. And because it was an option the full expense was probably passed on directly the customer, maybe it also added to the cost of the base vehicle whether it as included or not.
There are reports that Gass wanted too much for licensing but for an industry that only now is beginning to not go with status quo and offer this technology I would be willing to bet that they rejected Gass's offer more to keep him from proceeding and the good old boys club could continue to do what it was doing, turning out the same old technology that we had come to expect. Any deal may have qualified as too expensive. Letting competition in and watering down the field is too expensive.
It was only after Gass produced his saw and introduced his safety features, including the use of a riving knife, that the competition started to improve their products as far as user safety is concerned.
As what appears to have happened, not taking Gass's license deal, has probably been more costly. Delta is hardly in the business any more and not by the same people that owned them 10`15 years ago. Powermatic is still in business but owned by another company, the same as the one that owns Jet and a lot of Powermatic and Jet machines for a long time simply had different paint and stickers. I believe most American brands have had to restructure or sell to remain in the market. While paying Gass for his license may have been very costly and may have sunk some companies it was a mistake and a lesson on short sightedness. It would have been to Gass's advantage for his competition to remain viable so that he could profit from his licenses and maybe not even produce a saw. If your customers/license holders, are not selling saws, your are not selling licenses. I understood the licenses were offered as, per unit, sold with the technology.
Fortunately the PM 2000 and their bandsaws appear to be unique, possibly some others. And fortunately I believe the quality has not suffered and most likely why they continue to probably be the strongest competition to SawStop. But then they, IIRC, were the one of the first, if not the first, American company to offer the riving knife. From what I have read SawStop has take more than the lions share of the market with their own saw.
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On 9/17/2015 12:08 PM, John McCoy wrote:

yea, like they should have done for Palm and RIM. Rim stole the o/s from the palms for the blackberrys and then only had to pay 10 million because of the damage it would have done to RIM. That would have shut all the Blackberry's down, and I'm sure the judge had a blackberry, and didn't want to lose it.. I think it was about 2005 when that transpired.
--
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wrote:

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On 9/17/2015 8:37 PM, krw wrote:

But I think it has come to market. And Gass being a patent attorney I would think he would be right on top of that. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Hopefully there is enough difference that Bosch continues to produce the saw. And who knows maybe Bosch made a deal with Gass, there have been stranger bed fellows.
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wrote:

Exactly. The saw has hit the market and Gass has sued. Check back in two to five years and we should know the rest of the story. Until then no one knows what a mess the courts will make out of the situation.

I think the deal is the most likely scenario but there is at most four or five years left on the basic patents. Bosch might even be trading off some (perhaps reduced by the courts) royalty payment now for a leg up on the market five years down the road.
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On 9/18/2015 1:24 PM, krw wrote:

OJ, I was unaware of that. I look at a lot of trade publications, do you recall where you learned that?

about 15 years ago. IIRC production began about 8~10 years ago.
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wrote:

It was posted here a couple of times but I found it in the first couple of hits searching for "SawStop Patent". I was just looking for the numbers. ;-)

The original patents were filed in 1999, so that makes their expiration date 2019. There are other patents but they're not very likely to be difficult to get around.
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On 9/18/2015 10:06 PM, krw wrote:

long list of them on a label attached to my saw.
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On 9/19/2015 12:06 AM, Leon wrote:

They may have a lot of them, but they may be using quantity over quality. Some patents are easily skirted with a minor design change.
There is a lot of speculation in this tread, but unless you read the patents and looked to see if Bosch is the same or different, it is meaningless. Bosch may or may not have infringed, may or may not have done it intentionally, but they probably have deep pockets too.
I know of a company right now that holds a patent that is being infringed upon, has been to court, has had it upheld. He anticipates collecting tons of money, but to date has nothing but tons of lawyer bills. Some of the companies he went after are already out of business for other reasons and will never have a penny to give anyone.
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It's meaningless if you have read the patents and looked at the Bosch too. As krw and I have both said (and we've both at least skimmed over the patents), what any of us thinks doesn't matter - it's what a judge and jury think, and they are impossible to predict.
John
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On 9/19/15 11:08 AM, John McCoy wrote:

Add to the mix the complexity of information and you quickly realize that the jury in most cases isn't comprised of the defendant's "peers."
In this case you're talking about an in depth understanding of electrical and mechanical engineering about which most of the general public are severely ignorant.
The same thing has happened with music copyright cases. There have been cases of blatant, outright plagiarism than anyone with a couple college courses in music could easily decipher in one listen of each song, in which the jury/judge dismissed.
Then you have cases in which a good, persuasive trial attorney performed in court well enough to convince the musically illiterate that one musical artist "stole" another artist's song. In the latter, most musicians would shake their heads and say, "There are only 12 notes on a piano and only so many ways to arrange them, so if you dissect a song enough you'll soon come to the conclusion that there hasn't been an original song written in 500 years."
In both examples, it usually comes down to which lawyers and witnesses the jury members trust more, rather than any real understanding of the facts in the case.
--

-MIKE-

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snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com says...

Or as somebody or other put it, "The law is whatever you can convince a judge that it is".
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 17:33:45 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

It occurred to me because Bosch, unlike most others, has money to take such gambles.
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:36:36 -0500

is this the same saw that was mentioned here a while ago
the only bosch tool i own is a jig saw and i have had it for about a year
if this reaxx is made as well as this one and with the same thoughtful design i would think it is a very good saw
a cut above the other contractor saws and not a rip off
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