Bosch Reaxx Table Saw

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On 9/15/2015 8:02 PM, woodchucker wrote:

Could you actually prove that comment, or speculation? Certainly SawStop would be on to them and it would be in the news already.

Lowering? The SawStop lowers the blade during breaking too and pretty much with the same principal of the reloading of the arbor after a trigger.

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wrote:

The fat lady hasn't taken the stage.
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop-patent-lawsuit-85068/

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On 9/15/2015 8:08 PM, krw wrote:

Actually she has. The saw is on the market, that is all it had to do. This has been no secret and litigation would have stopped sales until settled. That may have happened but the end result is that you can now buy this feature on both brands.

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wrote:

Not so. That's only the start of the opera (Gass now has no trouble proving damages).

That's not the way patent cases work. Gass can only sue for damages. It's difficult to prove damages until the infringing technology actually comes to market. He can then receive triple damages.

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On 9/16/2015 7:30 PM, krw wrote:

Would have already happened.
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No, krw is right here. You can't sue for infringement of patent until the infringing product is on the market. Now that Bosch's saw is on the market, and SawStop has responded by filing suit, the patent can be tested in court.
That can take years to resolve.
If the court thinks SawStop is likely to prevail, they can issue an injunction to prevent Bosch from selling their saw until the suit is resolved. That does not often happen, the infringement has to be pretty blatent for the court to take action before trial.
John
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On 9/17/2015 11:08 AM, John McCoy wrote:

Understood. But has Sawstop Responded?

Understood. I think Bosch will be fine, surely their attorneys would have researched before giving the go ahead. Either way the method of causing the blade to drop appears to be totally different. The drop is a direct result of pistons firing. SS drops as a result of the force of the blade coming to a sudden stop to trigger a release.
Every saw can drop a blade, you turn the elevation wheel so dropping the blade below the surface is not a new thing. SawStop and Bosch have determined a faster way to drop the blade.
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Thought they had...yeah, Google says they sued back in July.

That's the hard part about patent cases - you might think it's totally different, your lawyers (who aren't technical folk) might think it's totally different, but will a judge & jury? Patent cases are notoriously unpredictable.
And, of course, there's also the possibility that Bosch is intentionally infringing, but expects SawStop to reach an agreement rather than pay to pursue a suit. That happens all the time in electronics - Apple (just as a for instance)(*) copies someone else's tech, the other party sues, then they agree that Apple can pay a chunk of money to license whatever it is. Even tho the second company wouldn't have voluntarily licensed Apple if they'd been asked, faced with a fait accompli it's cheaper to take the money than to sue.
John
(* actually, using Apple as the example because they do this all the time.)
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On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 20:03:25 +0000 (UTC)

i looked at the bosch site today and clicked on buy now and there were no sellers of the reaxx
either the site is not configured properly or some other glitch or there has been an injunction
or are they not for sale yet
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On 9/17/2015 3:03 PM, John McCoy wrote:

Humm, maybe the saw has been for sale longer than I expected. I thought it had only been available very recently. Do you know what the result of the suite was?

They and Samsung. ;~_
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It's only September, for heavens sake. They filed in July, there's not likely to be a result for a couple of years. At this point the lawyers probably haven't even exchanged phone numbers.
John
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On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 20:03:25 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy

Exactly right. I read the patents with a reasonably trained eye and don't see how Bosch can win but I'd never bet on the outcome of any civil case in the US courts.

Excellent point. It's not only cheaper but it's a bird in the hand. Given the court system, that means a lot.

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Agreed. Unless the court decides SawStop's patents are overly broad ("a woodworking machine that retracts a cutting tool by pivoting" is pretty damn broad), and invalidates them completely, which is possible but not too likely.
John
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On 9/18/2015 8:59 AM, John McCoy wrote:

Very broad because many saws predating SawStop pivoted the blade to lower it. Oddly though SawStop does not pivot the blade to lower, it goes straight up and down guided by 2 large diameter steel rods.
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snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com says...

Or perhaps Bosch has discovered prior art that would invalidate the patents.
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On 9/18/2015 4:45 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Art?
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wrote:

It's jargon in the IP world. ...as in "one practiced in the art (of designing table saws)". AKA "Technology".
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On 9/18/2015 10:02 PM, krw wrote:

Oooooh.
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 17:45:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Perhaps but the courtroom is an expensive place to show it off. If they really had something, they'd go to Gass and get a cheap license in trade for burying the prior art. Simply ignoring a patent is a very risky proposition. Bosch may think they can afford it, though.
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wrote in

Prior art is a good point, tho. The Patent Office doesn't look for prior art any longer before issuing a patent (they haven't done for decades), so it's not uncommon for someone to find it and challenge a patent on that ground.
And we don't know what conversations Bosch and SawStop may have had. Perhaps Bosch did go to them with the prior art, and Gass said "you're full of it! That wouldn't hold up in court." And so Bosch decided to find out.
John
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