Bosch Reaxx Table Saw

[krw]

Not to mention that by moving the blade *away* from you, it keeps your hand out of the sharp bits even if your hand is being propelled into them (eg. a kickback situation).

[Markem]

Yes just like the rodeo cowboy in the OSHA cartoon.

[krw]

Not so. That's only the start of the opera (Gass now has no trouble proving damages).

That's not the way patent cases work. Gass can only sue for damages. It's difficult to prove damages until the infringing technology actually comes to market. He can then receive triple damages.

[Leon]

Would have already happened.

[Leon]

Yes sir!

With a 1 hp Craftsman TS, that I mostly used thin kerf blades on, I was talked into switching to a regular kerf blade by my sharpening service, a Systematic, about 26 years ago. I never looked back. I switched to the Forrest WWII regular kerf in 1999 when I upgraded to a cabinet saw.

[Electric Comet]

is this the same saw that was mentioned here a while ago

the only bosch tool i own is a jig saw and i have had it for about a year

if this reaxx is made as well as this one and with the same thoughtful design i would think it is a very good saw

a cut above the other contractor saws and not a rip off

[John McCoy]

Leon wrote in news: [e-mail]:

No, krw is right here. You can't sue for infringement of patent until the infringing product is on the market. Now that Bosch's saw is on the market, and SawStop has responded by filing suit, the patent can be tested in court.

That can take years to resolve.

If the court thinks SawStop is likely to prevail, they can issue an injunction to prevent Bosch from selling their saw until the suit is resolved. That does not often happen, the infringement has to be pretty blatent for the court to take action before trial.

John

[Leon]

Yes but maybe not the one you are thinking about.

Time will tell

[Leon]

Understood. But has Sawstop Responded?

Understood. I think Bosch will be fine, surely their attorneys would have researched before giving the go ahead. Either way the method of causing the blade to drop appears to be totally different. The drop is a direct result of pistons firing. SS drops as a result of the force of the blade coming to a sudden stop to trigger a release.

Every saw can drop a blade, you turn the elevation wheel so dropping the blade below the surface is not a new thing. SawStop and Bosch have determined a faster way to drop the blade.

[woodchucker]

yea, like they should have done for Palm and RIM. Rim stole the o/s from the palms for the blackberrys and then only had to pay 10 million because of the damage it would have done to RIM. That would have shut all the Blackberry's down, and I'm sure the judge had a blackberry, and didn't want to lose it.. I think it was about 2005 when that transpired.

[John McCoy]

Leon wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Thought they had...yeah, Google says they sued back in July.

That's the hard part about patent cases - you might think it's totally different, your lawyers (who aren't technical folk) might think it's totally different, but will a judge & jury? Patent cases are notoriously unpredictable.

And, of course, there's also the possibility that Bosch is intentionally infringing, but expects SawStop to reach an agreement rather than pay to pursue a suit. That happens all the time in electronics - Apple (just as a for instance)(*) copies someone else's tech, the other party sues, then they agree that Apple can pay a chunk of money to license whatever it is. Even tho the second company wouldn't have voluntarily licensed Apple if they'd been asked, faced with a fait accompli it's cheaper to take the money than to sue.

John

(* actually, using Apple as the example because they do this all the time.)

[Electric Comet]

i looked at the bosch site today and clicked on buy now and there were no sellers of the reaxx

either the site is not configured properly or some other glitch or there has been an injunction

or are they not for sale yet

[Leon]

Humm, maybe the saw has been for sale longer than I expected. I thought it had only been available very recently. Do you know what the result of the suite was?

They and Samsung. ;~_

[John McCoy]

Leon wrote in news:YIOdnR4NEsb [e-mail]:

It's only September, for heavens sake. They filed in July, there's not likely to be a result for a couple of years. At this point the lawyers probably haven't even exchanged phone numbers.

John

[krw]

He *can't* until the saw comes to market.

[krw]

Exactly right. I read the patents with a reasonably trained eye and don't see how Bosch can win but I'd never bet on the outcome of any civil case in the US courts.

Excellent point. It's not only cheaper but it's a bird in the hand. Given the court system, that means a lot.

[John McCoy]

krw wrote in news:opqmva14cik686vlr9h8ogbaunome4m4fg@

4ax.com:

Agreed. Unless the court decides SawStop's patents are overly broad ("a woodworking machine that retracts a cutting tool by pivoting" is pretty damn broad), and invalidates them completely, which is possible but not too likely.

John

[Leon]

But I think it has come to market. And Gass being a patent attorney I would think he would be right on top of that. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Hopefully there is enough difference that Bosch continues to produce the saw. And who knows maybe Bosch made a deal with Gass, there have been stranger bed fellows.

[Leon]

Very broad because many saws predating SawStop pivoted the blade to lower it. Oddly though SawStop does not pivot the blade to lower, it goes straight up and down guided by 2 large diameter steel rods.

[krw]

Exactly. The saw has hit the market and Gass has sued. Check back in two to five years and we should know the rest of the story. Until then no one knows what a mess the courts will make out of the situation.

I think the deal is the most likely scenario but there is at most four or five years left on the basic patents. Bosch might even be trading off some (perhaps reduced by the courts) royalty payment now for a leg up on the market five years down the road.