I want to learn how to make basic cabinet frames -- I will probably start by buying the doors but would love to get a good intro on how to design and build cabinets.
I could make it up myself by trial-and-error, but would rather learn from the experts...
So any good suggestions on both intro and intermediate level resources?
Thanks
There is more than one way. Visit a big library or bookstore and examine the books available until one of them meshes with you. Also examine cupboards every chance you get. I visited Disneyland 30 years ago and spotted some cupboards in a store I liked. I been building them ever since. No book needed. A cupboard is a simple box. Use any joint you like to assemble the box. I use rabbets cut with a router and straight edge. Either add a face frame or not as you please. I like face frames. Choose your door type. I like simple plywood doors. Drawers are just another box with a front fastened to it. You won't find many drawers in my cupboards. Sometimes I'll make a cupboard for drawers. I'll install a cupboard door so I can use it for a while. When I get around to it I make the drawers and install them. I slice the cupboard door into drawer fronts and fasten them to the drawers. I like using metal drawer slides which means the drawers have to be very accurately sized. I like doing the toe kick separate, lets me cut 3 end panels from a length of plywood. Lots of pieces. Make a cutting list. Bring the sheets home and slide them off the truck onto some sawhorses. Cut them up with a skil saw and straight edge. If you wish cut a little oversized and run them thru a table saw to cut to the finish size. I don't. Skil saw is good enough. Assemble the boxes with some glue and a finish air nailer. Install them. Add a face frame. I like to use pocket screws to assemble the face frame. Then install the doors. I make end panels out of paneling to put on the end of the cupboards to conceal the chipboard the boxes are made out of. My cupboards are pretty basic. Frameless, fancy doors, adjustable shelf's, drawers, ect. can make additional work. I don't go there. Cupboards can add up to a lot work. Best to keep them simple. I use Watco for a finish. Rub it on and you are done.
"blueman" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@consult.pretender...
I'm sure you will get a few people chiming in with some good references. There is one standard that I have seen in 100 cab shops but the name just escapes me.
Anyway, the reason for my response is to tell you to get hold of last seasons New Yankee Workshop multi-part series on building kitchen cabinates. Sort of Namh's Opus. Then buy yourself a flannel shirt and a brad nailer and you will work like a pro! Honestly, there are lots of ways to skin this cat but Norm did a good job and it is pretty comprehensive.
Jim Tolpin has a couple of good books out, and I would love to point you to John Paquay's book/method, of which I've been using a variation for a number of years, but unfortunately no one has been able to find John for some time, and his website where he sold his excellent booklet is down.
I really don't have the time to delve into it at the moment except to say that your first sentence above raises a red flag.
Word to the wise ...
Do not under any circumstances "start by buying the doors" ... that is the biggest mistake you could possibly make.
Build your cabinets first, and before you build any doors or drawers, decide what hardware (door hinges and drawer slides) you want to use.
These two hardware component's, in particular, are the "tail that wags the dog" when it comes to building cabinets, and they need to be decided upon BEFORE you build your doors and drawers, along with the all important dimensions of the already built boxes.
Perhaps if you're not in that big of a hurry we can take up other aspects building cabinets as they come up. I build a ton of cabinets, and with a good deal of assistance from Leon who also participates here and who is an exceptional cabinet and furniture maker.
Basically, there is wealth of practical experience on the wRec that transcends most books and TV shows, but finding the time to do a complete step by step on usenet may take some time, so keep asking questions and perhaps they can be knocked down one at a time.
Danny Proulx is available in all kinds of flavours all over the intarweb. You might be able to find something in his line-up that'll tickle your fancy.
Anyway, the reason for my response is to tell you to get hold of last seasons New Yankee Workshop multi-part series on building kitchen cabinates. Sort of Namh's Opus. Then buy yourself a flannel shirt and a brad nailer and you will work like a pro! Honestly, there are lots of ways to skin this cat but Norm did a good job and it is pretty comprehensive.
--------------------- Agreed.
Not only does he cover the basic construction of cabinets in general but also addresses the design and construction process of a complete kitchen which includes a caveat about what is involved in a kitchen project.
Lew
Just to clarify. Are you arguing against buying doors (vs. building them) or is your point just about the sequencing of when to get the doors vs. deciding on the hardware and building the cases?
The reason I was thinking of buying doors is that doors seem to be more complicated and often require more expensive machinery such as shapers or specialty router bits. Therefore, I thought I would start my first project by just building the carcass and face frame. But if that is a bad idea, I am open to better suggestions.
And the only reason I had thought to order the doors first is due to the order time required.
I am only building a single wall-to-ceiling cabinet for our bathroom and I thought I would use "standard" cup hinges and stock pulls -- no drawers or slides. But assuming I pick out cup hinges and pulls, is there any downside to ordering the doors after that and then waiting to build the carcasses and face frames until after the doors arrive -- that way I figure I could use the doors in part as a template to make sure the proportions fit and look right. Also that way my wife won't be complaining about a half finished project ;) Please educate me if I am thinking about this wrong...
I totally appreciate your kind offer and will almost certainly take you up on it. For me it is all a good learning experience and I appreciate the collegiality.
I'm not responding with advice but with encouragement. I'm presently building my own kitchen cupboards. The photos are of a set of cupboards I made in for my utility room for practice.
As others have suggested there are some good books available. I have a few from Lee Valley Tools. Yankee Workshop videos are an excellent resource. I learned a lot from watching Norm and all the rest.
You will need some decent equipment but they will pay for themselves with the money you save by building yourself. Table saw with good blades, router and table, lots of clamps.
Take your time, think out every step and start with the larger pieces. That way you can use the wood for smaller pieces if they don't turn out right. Most of all don't get discouraged if you seem to be making a lot of small pieces.
Consider a mistake as a learning experience. By the way I define a mistake as having the same learning experience several times in a row. I have a pile of learning experiences big enough to heat my house for a week.
LdB
I would build the cabinet first so I could have accurate measuments for the doors. Also you have more freedom to make changes if you are not locked into door sizes. The cabinet can be installed and used while waiting for doors. If you ask around there will be someone in the area making doors to order. The trick is to find him. Lipped plywood doors are quick and easy and inexpensive. You can replace the doors later with fancy ones.
I disagree with Swingman. IMHO there is nothing wrong with buying the doors first. Depending on how you want your doors to look it can require expensive tools/tooling but it doesn't necessarily have to.
That's a good point. Cost is another factor. Stock doors from the Home Depot are very likely to be much lower in cost than a custom size made to order. OTOH if you don't like the styling/colors of the stock doors this is a moot point. My wife wants me to add more cabinets in the kitchen. I found some doors on craigslist that match the style&color of the ones we have and got them for $6 ea. I don't have the tooling to make matching doors and I couldn't buy the wood alone for that price. The height of the new doors is somewhat more than the existing ones but I can accommodate that in the face frame design. She wants the new cabs to be lower so she can knead bread dough easier and by eliminating the drawers and making the top rail a bit wider it will look just fine. There's plenty of room for some pull out bread boards too but the boss is still thinking about that option.
Nothing wrong with your thinking. Personal preferences abound here but there are many ways to accomplish a task (depending on your skill level, available tools, etc), but ultimately you decide what is best for you.
Be aware that there are many standard cup (aka Euro) hinges. There are both inset and overlay types and with the overlay ones there are varying amounts of overlay available. This will affect the size of the openings in the face frame. Art
*** additional comments imbedded in original text above.
It depends upon whether you want to do it the smart way, or the trial and error way ... the smart way is to build your cabinets _to the space_, then build the doors and drawers to the cabinets.
Anyone who recommends otherwise simply does not know what the hell they're taking about.
If someone wants to get into a pissing contest, ask for some show and tell.
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:05:58 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy scrawled the following:
Danny didn't tickle me at all, for some reason. I liked Jim Tolpin's books more, and Robert Lang's books resonate for me best.
Of course, Freirer's _Cabinetmaking and Millwork_ is the big, heavy, old bible which sh^H^Hcould be on everyone's shelf.
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
Might I suggest these folks ????
With a Kreg jig, glue, screws and six pieces of plywood, you can have a basic box ready for a door in just a few minutes.
There are MANY different construction methods for cabinets but the Kreg way is fast,accurate, and quite strong.
Take a peek at the videos..
blueman wrote:
That's a good idea, particularly for uppers. (we're all assuming blueman's talking about kitchen type cabinets?)
And, if you're going to use face frame cabinets, pocket hole joinery _is_ the "elegant" method for face frame joinery these days, just the appropriate amount of strength for the task.
On that same note, you would definitely want to take the anticipated counter top material into consideration with the base cabinet boxes, particularly if there were plans using a stone like granite and/or for a large island.
IOW, insure that you design a strongly built base cabinet(a face frame cabinet, with an integral back, would be the strongest), as racking forces can be a problem with heavy loads, so planning for that in advance would be wise.
I think Danny's books are better suited for a pink-brained novice. Old salts, like yourself, probably find Danny's books a bit juvenile? Many books are more reference guides than actual play-by-play instructionalerizations. (Eat THAT spelsjecker!!)
I started out using a Kreg making uppers for my shop and I really got into the swing of things much quicker using their methods.
The face frames are almost a no brainer.
I will always be a Kreg jig fan.
Sw> That's a good idea, particularly for uppers. (we're all assuming
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