Blade Guard on a Table Saw?

Page 7 of 9  
My guard, splitter and anti-kickback pawls are mounted on the TS at all times except for dados. Any reason not to use is just rationalization and self-delusion.

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Samson wrote:

Yes. Unless cut is not "through". Makita 2704 has very nice guard, splitter, anti-kickback pawls. In/out in 30 sec.
Push-sticks are in-hand before commencing cut, unless both hands will remain at least 10" away from blade, at absolute minimum.
Failing-safe very important too- continuously tracking highest possible threat to extremities, and limiting that to zero. Stuff happens fast.
J
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On 10/24/2006 2:59:08 PM, wrote:

I use push sticks all the time, mostly because table saw scares the crap out of me.
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The guard is on my saw except for non-through cuts. I'm thinking about making an overarm guard so it is always on for the same reason I have a chainsaw with a chain brake. I plan to do everything within my power to keep all my parts intact. Others mileage may vary (IE. if your parts don't matter to you, go for it).
Mike

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Samson wrote:

put my hands into my tablesaw blade. The guard is more trouble that it's worth. If I was cutting tons of MDF all day, then a guard with DC would be a must.
Dave
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Please read the "rant" posted earlier by 'zap'...
Just because you haven't *yet* does not mean you never will.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Well, to be fair, if one were to take zap's rant too much to heart, one would never venture into the shop since life is full of so many fluke accidents.
--

-Mike-
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wrote:

I, too, am a safety freak. I guess I got that way growing up around stupid people who were NOT safety freaks and hurt themselves on a regular basis. I just looked at them and said that I was going to be different.
Yes, there are those freak accidents that happen from time to time. But the occur in many places, not just shops.
I have taken a number of injured people to the hospital. In every case, they screwed up. And most of them knew it too. Interestingly enough, some people learned from this experience. and some did not.
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Well, that's fine.

Likewise, I have seen, and the evidence is certainly contained in the archives of this group - that being a safety freak in no way ensures safety. This group is full of stories about incidents in the shop where all of the safety gear was in place. It is full of stories from "safety freaks" who put pieces of wood through walls, into body parts, who posted pictures of stiches, etc. Being a safety freak does nothing to ensure you will not be hurt. The post by zap was a collection of freak accidents that didn't even correlate to the discussion at hand.

And you point is?

Ummmmmm... of course they screwed up. And the point is?
--

-Mike-
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David wrote:

How about another similar bone-of-contention for some years back- seat-belts in cars. In that case, too, the unexpected happened very quickly, leaving you no options. Even using them, you still have to drive reasonably; in neither case could you be said to be recklessly risking yourself in traffic.
Seat belts are probably a bother and a nuisance to some, for a while. My sons were gotten accustomed to them from their first ride, and feel very exposed now, in their twenties, without being buckled in. One of them is alive because of using proper restraints; the other escaped possibly major injury.
If you're going to be involved in sports-car competition, you will have an approved 5-point harness strapping you in. No discussion.
If I use proper safety-equipment and procedures on t/s, I can make my probability of amputation be zero. Saves cleaning up blood-spatter too.
HTH, J
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Nope! I can still count to ten but the closest call I have ever had was with the guard on. I find it a distraction and always in the way. I am not a full time woodworker but have used a table saw for 50yr (just every now and then) so don't get what you would call comfortable with the blade, so it scares hell out of me and I want to be able to see it at all times. RM~
PS, I use all other precautions, push stick and etc.
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wrote:

Why do you want to see it?
A *lot* of people have said that, but nobody has explained why. And at least one person has pointed out that you *can't* see the part of it that's going to bite you while it's moving... so what purpose is served by being able to see the blade?
--
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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I like to see the blade so that I can align my mark up with where the teeth are "actually" cutting when cross cutting. Aligning with a stationary tooth does not always result with a dead on cut. All teeth cut a bit differently. If you ease the board and mark up to the spinning blade you can see where the cut begins in relation to the mark. Other wise it tends to be a bit of trial by error.
Additionally, I have seen small pieces of cut off waste apparently get bound up between the guard and blade and come shooting out. I personally feel better with out the guard than with and I have been injured after the saw was turned off. Guard or no guard, you still have to be careful and still stand the risk of being injured with any tool regardless of your experience.
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Leon wrote:

Screw a sacrificial fence to your mitre gauge/crosscut sled, then cut a kerf in it with the blade you're going to use. The edge of the kerf is where your cut will be.
Chris
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You can do that too. I prefer my method.
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If it doesn't, you need to use better blades, or a saw with less run-out.

Again -- if there's so much difference between the static position and the actual cut, you need better equipment.

Yep -- I've seen that too. I've also seen offcuts walk into the blade from vibration and come shooting out when there was *not* a guard in place. Not a valid argument for removing the guard IMO.

Thank you.

No argument there.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Not necessarily so. Proper alignment of the blade to the miter slot is to use a single tooth tip to take front and back measurements. Teeth are not always in perfect alignment with each other. I use WWII's and a relatively new Jet cabinet saw with .0005 run out at the arbor the last time I checked. I get really smooth/burnished cuts.

Nope. Not all teeth on blades cut on both sides of the kerf. I simply like to use the actual kerf vs. picking out the tooth that will establish the particular kerf edge that I am looking for

Not saying that cut offs may not walk back into the blade however I have never seen one being thrown back with much force unless it was in a bind. That would be your classic kick back. I have had plenty of pieces walk back into the back end of the blade after the cut but if there is nothing to hold the scrap against the blade, there is not as much chance of the piece being forcefully thrown back at you. I am not saying to not use a guard, I am only saying that with any tool, a guard is not a guarantee and accidents can still happen. With the guards that come standard on MOST saws, I view an equal to more risk of injury from flying debris. AND, while I believe I learned many years ago to wait for the blade to stop spinning before making adjustments I realize an accident can still happen. If I feel the need for more safety equipment I might go with the Bies style guard but probably will move up to the Saw Stop.

Thank you Doug, I think we covered both views pretty well. If a user has the guard and feels better using it I certainly do advise using it. The less you worry about during the cut, the more attention you can pay to the cut.
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Same here on all counts. When I'm cutting to a pencil mark, I routinely line up a single tooth against the mark (with the saw off, of course) -- and I have *never* observed the actual cut to deviate from that position. If that *does* happen for you, your saw has more runout than you think, or there's something wrong with your blade.

Yes, I know that.

I repeat: if there's so much difference between the static position and the actual cut that it becomes a trial and error process, you have an equipment problem.
--
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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I guess the point I am trying to make here is that I do not want to spin the blade to get to the tooth that is going to establish the side of the cut that I am referencing.

Then you can understand why I do not rely on using any tooth that is in position to align my mark.

No equipment error, I just like to be as exact as I can be to start with. The difference is very slight between the tooth that cuts the left side of the kerf and the tooth that cuts the right side of the kerf and for the most part is probably immesurable however this is the way that I have ended up aligning my cuts. Years ago I used to align marks with reference marks on my insert and that worked pretty good however I progressed to seeing the cut as a reference. It's a touchey feeley kind of thing.
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And the point that *I'm* trying to make is that if you *need* to that, you have an equipment problem of some sort: excessive runout, bent arbor, bent blade, or teeth that aren't set uniformly. In my experience, *any* tooth that's set to the side where the pencil mark is will work just fine to establish the cut line. Given that none of the equipment problems I cited above exist, that is.

No, I'm sorry, I can't understand that.
Blade will have teeth set like \, |, and /, right? So if your pencil mark is left of the blade, align it to *any* tooth that's set like \ . That's all. There's no need to rotate the blade any more than two or three teeth to get one that's set in the proper direction.

OK, fine -- are you telling me that aligning a pencil mark that's left of the blade, to the point of a tooth that's set to the left, isn't "exact"??

I wouldn't call it immeasurable; it's probably at least 1/32". Of course, I haven't been talking about aligning the pencil mark to just any random tooth, either.

So, tell me, how do you align your pencil mark with the spinning blade?
--
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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