Biscut jointer Q's

[krw]

A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some questions:

1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some cauls this weekend.

1. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask. Thanks.

[mike from American Sycamore]

yes this is normal...and yes the machine makes a weird noisei

[GarageWoodworks]

Yes. I have a can of biscuits that is several months old. Some if the biscuits will be tight and some loose. There will some variability in moisture content from biscuit to biscuit. (this is what I have found).

After you add glue they will swell significantly.

YES! Use wax paper so the cauls don't stick.

Don't know this one, I own a DeWalt.

I would

[krw]

Thanks again. I guess my expectations were a bit high. Oh, well, it's certainly an easy tool to use, if not precisely what I expected.

[John]

The biscuits move pretty freely along their length. Across their width, they're usually snug but not tight -- they slip in and out of the slot easily and yeah, they might rattle around by a 64th, I guess. But that all changes once you apply the glue. They swell up and after a few seconds you'd have a hard time pulling them out if you wanted to. (Experiment on a piece of scrap wood -- you'll see what I mean.)

Yeah, the PC is noisy and a bit rough sounding and now that you mention it, a lot like my coffee grinder. Not to worry.

(And if you want a really interesting sound, remove the dust-collection canister and hook up a shop vac hose to catch the chips. It sounds like a fire siren!)

Reply-to address is real John

[Doug Miller]

Perfectly normal on both counts. The biscuits will be plenty tight once you put a little glue on them -- as long as it's water-based glue. Using a urethane glue (e.g. Gorilla Glue) kind of defeats the purpose... the biscuits are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.

Warning: wait *at least* overnight before sanding, planing, or scraping any boards that were biscuit-joined. The biscuits swell, the wood above them swells, and if you sand/plane/scrape too soon, when the wood dries, you'll have biscuit-shaped depressions in the surface.

[Peter Huebner]

I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right place with my thumb, they're that tight.

Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a coffee grinder ...

Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.

-P.

[CW]

I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the biscuit joiner to be much use.

[Leon]

Yes

I thought they'd be more

Absolutely not.

I know the idea is that they expand

Correct

It seems I'm going to have to make some

Probably not but they do.

I would have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the

These days PC is middle of the road. I have 2 PC plate joiners. If you want "high end" look at Lamello. Lamello is about the only "high end" plate joiner.

I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this

Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.

[krw]

Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do more alignment, so stopped.

I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade). I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some Lamello next time I order toys.

[krw]

Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less after I rip everything down to final size.

[krw]

am a disappointed in its operation. It really does sound like it has bad bearings. My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle drive.

They all seem sloppy.

[Lew Hodgett]

Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.

Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except at the corner miters in the wood.

YMMV

Lew

[Chris Friesen]

I have a PC with some slop in the biscuits. No play in the bearings, sounds like an angle grinder (which is basically what it is).

I'm tempted to take the blades down to my sharpening guy and get them to take a few thou off the sides.

Chris

[Artemus]

"krw" wrote

I have a PC 557 type 2 I bought a few years ago It had an alignment issue with the fence but I added Owen Lowe's shim and cured that problem. The newer type 3's don't have the problem. Mine sounds like my angle grinder and I assume it is due to the same square cut bevel gears. Hypoid cut gears would be much quieter but cost much more.

Initially my slots were too wide and it was due to poor technique. A bit of practice fixed that. I have found that the PC biscuits are quite consistent in thickness. The ones at the Despot were pure crap ( I forgot the brand). Rockler's are ok with just an occasional fat one. I haven't tried any others. I store mine in some old Tupperware and haven't had a problem with them swelling here in Oregon. Art

[keithw86]

If a $50 drill can use them, I'd think a $200+ slot cutter could. :- ( The only thing I see of value on the PC slot cutter is the fence. The rest is crap. I suppose the fence is the important part, but...

Can you elaborate what about your technique caused the slots to be too wide? I don't see much that would effect the slot width. I'm in Eastern Alabama so humidity (in the garage) is certainly an issue. The PC and Bosch biscuits came in a plastic "bottle" with a screw top, so should be good that way.

[Leon]

Now if you really want to be wowed and have a high end tool that produces superior results and much much much stronger joints consider,

purchacing this tool 2 years ago I have not seen either of my PC joiners.

[RonB]

What they said above regarding biscuit thickness. I even think the ones in the bottles in my garage expand and contract with seasons and humidity.

I have a Dewalt and it is a little noisy. Remember that your machine is a not-so-distant cousin to an angle grinder. It has a gears in the end that change direction of rotation and speed. A little noisy by design.

RonB

[Luigi Zanasi]

You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it is more accurate than biscuits.

Don't get me wrong, I love my biscuit joiner for 90 degree joints, especially in sheet goods.

Luigi

[Max]

I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the most available here). The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before gluing. There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an intentional design.

Max