Biscuit joining expectations

Page 2 of 3  
Can't help with your problem, but thanks for making me feel better about just buying an inexpensive biscuit joiner instead of a name brand.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yea - but I have to admit, it really is smooth in action and motor, well machined (so far as fit and finish) - it's just a very nice machine - It just doesn't work right !!
I haven't heard of anyone else here seeing this - hopefully just one that slipped through QC.
I did go ahead and take the blade off and inspect the best I could. I also put the FF cutter on it and it cuts big too (although to a lesser degree but it's hard to tell with a slot that small).
I guess I'll send it to the service center as instructed. How about returning it through Amazon ? What do you guys think ????
jim

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim, Many people watch and sort by threads, which depend on the title line. With all the daily posts, if you keep changing the title line, some responses will be missed. GerryG
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:25:58 GMT, "Jim Bailey"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Point well taken Gerry - shouldn't make people trying to help me chase the thread all around.
Thanks for all the help.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim,
I bought the exact same kit you got from Amazon. I'm out of town now so I cannot go check it closely, but I am absolutely sure it doesn't create the sloppy slots you describe. In fact it seems to work precisely in my useage.
If you can return it to Amazon for full credit, I'd do that, then order a replacement. It will be by far the fastest way to get it handled.
The only "problem" I experienced when I first used mine was inexperience and I inadvertantly rested the joiner on the table top instead of the top of the wood and my slots did not line up. I now know to put the wood on a spacer block or something to make sure its well clear of any table or vice surfaces when I align the joiner to make the cut.
Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks Bob - I'll try them today - I hate the idea of having to ship a new tool off to the service center. I was extremely carefull about my technique when testing this. And it acts the same way with the FF cutter installed as well.
jim

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim Bailey wrote:

If you can't determine (and easily fix) the problem by cleanup of the arbor/mount/etc., I'd suggest it probably would be quicker to simply return it to Amazon as Bob suggests rather than go w/ the service center.
PITA, but I'd take may chances on a replacement since you'll have shipping charges either way...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Just got off Amazon's return pages. Within minutes I had an email confirmation of the new order and that it would be shipped UPS 2 day. And a link to print a prepaid return label ! All i have to do is get it back to them within 30 days or they'll charge me for both units.
I'm impressed !
jim

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim Bailey wrote:

...Yeah, as long as the automated engine(s) do what you want to do, it works pretty well...questions out of the ordinary aren't necessarily so clean, however.
Their interaction system for odd/unusual events is very difficult--they hide their responders behind anonymous addresses and have only a web-based engine that removes all context for any response to theirs. Since it's also not a case of where a single individual will follow up on the original it often takes a bunch of tries to finally get the actual issue resolved. Of course, Amazon is far from unique in this w/ online stores--Dell, for example, is a real pita if one has anything that doesn't fit the normal model.
Not a rant, per se, just an observation having a concurrent issue pending...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Amazon has an 800 number with a real person on the other end. I've called them to check on an order before and I got an American English speaking person in a couple of rings.
Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
BillyBob wrote:

Maybe I'll have to try that again...when I last tried, it was 10 minutes of "we value your call"... :(
Aside--wrt to the delay since last October on shipment of Freud planer knives that prompted the complaint...
After specifically requesting they turn off the auto-timeout function on the notification of delay robot as I didn't care much about delivery date since I am ordering the extra set of knives for inventory when I do need to send the carbide knives off for sharpening, yesterday I got an auto-generated cancellation notice. So, apparently they shut of the notification 'bot but not the cancellation 'bot... Smart! :(
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Jim Bailey" wrote:

Amazon is usually very good about that kind of stuff. I own the PC and have been very pleased with it.
San Diego Joe
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Agreed. Check both flat across blade twice (at 90 deg angles) with straight edge, and flat across teeth against flat surface with raking light, both sides.
Actually, firstly check if the blade is loose or has any wobble felt by hand (after unplugging, of course).
Second, I'd clamp it open (engaged) and put a block against the edge of the blade, mark the spot, light behind and rotate by hand. The eye should be able to pick up anything more than a .004 or so change.
IOW, try to do most checks before you take anything apart, so nothing gets "temporarily" fixed. Once you know which dimension is off, you can take it apart to find the exact cause.
GerryG
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 22:43:22 GMT, "Jim Bailey"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:42:59 -0700, Jim Bailey wrote

I found that to get good vertical alignment you need to put equal amounts of glue on each side. If one side has it thick and one has it thin, it'll move unevenly. Clamps can also help even the surfaces if any small misalignment is unacceptable. -Bruce
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That doesn't really sound right. For one, the glue should always be put in the slot, and not on the side of the biscuit, as you may have indicated, else it will start to swell too soon and glue may be scraped off as it's inserted.
Next, the biggest advantage of biscuits is the vertical alignment. You've seen the numbers for the slot and biscuits sizes. If you need to (or even can) influence vertical alignment with glue or clamps, something is wrong. Or, are you talking about differences of <.002? GerryG

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:44:25 -0700, GerryG wrote

My comment was meant more to imply consistency. Glue in the slot alone (without spreading up the sides with a brush) usually will leave the biscuit sides dry. My applications haven't really required excessive neatness and yes, I do get a fair amount of squeeze out (I use tape to catch it). I haven't really noticed early expansion problems, but I'm quick to get the assembly together and rarely use more than eight biscuits at a time.
On the consistency issue I have found it better to drop the fence (PC cutter) and reference on the top edges of the "display" side. I have found more alignment error when resting both the board surfaces and cutter on the table. My reasoning is that if you reference the cutter directly to the board, you eliminate any possible errors with a cutter-to table-to board method of referencing.
Either way, there will always be a degree of error...

The errors I typically see are 1/32" or so. With care and good material prep I can get 0.002".
-Bruce

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Agreed, Bruce. Every book, guide and tutorial I've seen stresses that you should use a brush, stick or other implement to spread the glue on the sides of the slot. It's one of the basics of using the tool. When you said "equal amounts on each side" I couldn't see how you could do that with a narrow slot, so assumed you must be talking about the biscuit, but perhaps not.
As to using the fence or the table as a reference, like everything else it depends on the particular case. For instance, a small, flat board will be easier with a base reference against the table, and the board itself may not be large enough to securely set the fence. OTOH, a shelf or carcass with its larger size may well be not exactly flat against the table, and a fence reference will often workmuch better. GerryG

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:47:08 -0700, GerryG wrote

Yep, the biscuit. My procedure is to squirt a daub of glue in the slot, spread it around with an acid (flux) brush, then brush on a thin layer of glue to the sides of the biscuit. The error can come (in the extreme case) by not spreading the glue in the slot and only placing glue on one side of the biscuit.

I think the biggest source of accumulated error when referencing off the table is when slotting warped stock. -Bruce

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

well it was bonded, under different conditions. It's not difficult (or expensive) to quickly try a dozen variations on a single piece of scrap. I tried different amounts of glue and how well it was spread. Found the right amount of glue and such gives a solid joint with little squeeze-out. As expected, found MDF, particle board and such absorbs more glue. You either apply a bit more or, like when gluing end grain, put on a thin coat then add more a few minutes later. Now, the reason for expounding on this: if you add glue to the biscuit, you're then very limited on time, and I don't see any advantage. I build carcasses with shelves and such that may need several dozen biscuits applied at once. With clamps and all laid in position, I take a bag of biscuits and a small rubber mallet. Each biscuit is pushed in, then 2 hammer taps, then the next. It makes for very neat and quick construction.

but still have enough gap to the table to produce an error. It's a matter of paying close attention to the details. I've seen as many errors with the fence, where the torque from starting the motor jars your hold on the fence against the piece. Seen many people starting to plunge before starting the joiner which makes this easy to happen. GerryG

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 08:39:16 -0700, GerryG wrote

Gerry, Have you ever tried one of those "biscuit" glue applicators? I've seen TheNorm use one and they seem to speed application. I actually have a cheap one but given the pain it would be to clean and my infrequent use of biscuits I've never tried it.
In your tests, have you ever dissected an end-grain to end-grain joint? Whenever I had to do this I've just used a half lap, figured biscuits would be too weak.
-Bruce
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.