Yea - but I have to admit, it really is smooth in action and motor, well
machined (so far as fit and finish) - it's just a very nice machine - It
just doesn't work right !!
I haven't heard of anyone else here seeing this - hopefully just one that
slipped through QC.
I did go ahead and take the blade off and inspect the best I could. I also
put the FF cutter on it and it cuts big too (although to a lesser degree but
it's hard to tell with a slot that small).
I guess I'll send it to the service center as instructed. How about
returning it through Amazon ? What do you guys think ????
Many people watch and sort by threads, which depend on the title line. With
all the daily posts, if you keep changing the title line, some responses will
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:25:58 GMT, "Jim Bailey"
I bought the exact same kit you got from Amazon. I'm out of town now so
I cannot go check it closely, but I am absolutely sure it doesn't
create the sloppy slots you describe. In fact it seems to work
precisely in my useage.
If you can return it to Amazon for full credit, I'd do that, then order
a replacement. It will be by far the fastest way to get it handled.
The only "problem" I experienced when I first used mine was
inexperience and I inadvertantly rested the joiner on the table top
instead of the top of the wood and my slots did not line up. I now know
to put the wood on a spacer block or something to make sure its well
clear of any table or vice surfaces when I align the joiner to make the
Thanks Bob - I'll try them today - I hate the idea of having to ship a new
tool off to the service center. I was extremely carefull about my technique
when testing this. And it acts the same way with the FF cutter installed as
If you can't determine (and easily fix) the problem by cleanup of the
arbor/mount/etc., I'd suggest it probably would be quicker to simply
return it to Amazon as Bob suggests rather than go w/ the service
PITA, but I'd take may chances on a replacement since you'll have
shipping charges either way...
Just got off Amazon's return pages. Within minutes I had an email
confirmation of the new order and that it would be shipped UPS 2 day. And a
link to print a prepaid return label ! All i have to do is get it back to
them within 30 days or they'll charge me for both units.
I'm impressed !
...Yeah, as long as the automated engine(s) do what you want to do, it
works pretty well...questions out of the ordinary aren't necessarily so
Their interaction system for odd/unusual events is very difficult--they
hide their responders behind anonymous addresses and have only a
web-based engine that removes all context for any response to theirs.
Since it's also not a case of where a single individual will follow up
on the original it often takes a bunch of tries to finally get the
actual issue resolved. Of course, Amazon is far from unique in this w/
online stores--Dell, for example, is a real pita if one has anything
that doesn't fit the normal model.
Not a rant, per se, just an observation having a concurrent issue
Maybe I'll have to try that again...when I last tried, it was 10 minutes
of "we value your call"... :(
Aside--wrt to the delay since last October on shipment of Freud planer
knives that prompted the complaint...
After specifically requesting they turn off the auto-timeout function on
the notification of delay robot as I didn't care much about delivery
date since I am ordering the extra set of knives for inventory when I do
need to send the carbide knives off for sharpening, yesterday I got an
auto-generated cancellation notice. So, apparently they shut of the
notification 'bot but not the cancellation 'bot... Smart! :(
Agreed. Check both flat across blade twice (at 90 deg angles) with straight
edge, and flat across teeth against flat surface with raking light, both
Actually, firstly check if the blade is loose or has any wobble felt by hand
(after unplugging, of course).
Second, I'd clamp it open (engaged) and put a block against the edge of the
blade, mark the spot, light behind and rotate by hand. The eye should be able
to pick up anything more than a .004 or so change.
IOW, try to do most checks before you take anything apart, so nothing gets
"temporarily" fixed. Once you know which dimension is off, you can take it
apart to find the exact cause.
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 22:43:22 GMT, "Jim Bailey"
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:42:59 -0700, Jim Bailey wrote
I found that to get good vertical alignment you need to put equal amounts of
glue on each side. If one side has it thick and one has it thin, it'll move
unevenly. Clamps can also help even the surfaces if any small misalignment is
That doesn't really sound right. For one, the glue should always be put in the
slot, and not on the side of the biscuit, as you may have indicated, else it
will start to swell too soon and glue may be scraped off as it's inserted.
Next, the biggest advantage of biscuits is the vertical alignment. You've seen
the numbers for the slot and biscuits sizes. If you need to (or even can)
influence vertical alignment with glue or clamps, something is wrong. Or, are
you talking about differences of <.002?
My comment was meant more to imply consistency. Glue in the slot alone
(without spreading up the sides with a brush) usually will leave the biscuit
sides dry. My applications haven't really required excessive neatness and
yes, I do get a fair amount of squeeze out (I use tape to catch it). I
haven't really noticed early expansion problems, but I'm quick to get the
assembly together and rarely use more than eight biscuits at a time.
On the consistency issue I have found it better to drop the fence (PC cutter)
and reference on the top edges of the "display" side. I have found more
alignment error when resting both the board surfaces and cutter on the
table. My reasoning is that if you reference the cutter directly to the
board, you eliminate any possible errors with a cutter-to table-to board
method of referencing.
Either way, there will always be a degree of error...
The errors I typically see are 1/32" or so. With care and good material prep
I can get 0.002".
Agreed, Bruce. Every book, guide and tutorial I've seen stresses that you
should use a brush, stick or other implement to spread the glue on the sides
of the slot. It's one of the basics of using the tool. When you said "equal
amounts on each side" I couldn't see how you could do that with a narrow slot,
so assumed you must be talking about the biscuit, but perhaps not.
As to using the fence or the table as a reference, like everything else it
depends on the particular case. For instance, a small, flat board will be
easier with a base reference against the table, and the board itself may not
be large enough to securely set the fence. OTOH, a shelf or carcass with its
larger size may well be not exactly flat against the table, and a fence
reference will often workmuch better.
Yep, the biscuit. My procedure is to squirt a daub of glue in the slot,
spread it around with an acid (flux) brush, then brush on a thin layer of
glue to the sides of the biscuit. The error can come (in the extreme case) by
not spreading the glue in the slot and only placing glue on one side of the
I think the biggest source of accumulated error when referencing off the
table is when slotting warped stock.
When I first started with biscuits, I cut open some joints to see just how
well it was bonded, under different conditions. It's not difficult (or
expensive) to quickly try a dozen variations on a single piece of scrap. I
tried different amounts of glue and how well it was spread. Found the right
amount of glue and such gives a solid joint with little squeeze-out. As
expected, found MDF, particle board and such absorbs more glue. You either
apply a bit more or, like when gluing end grain, put on a thin coat then add
more a few minutes later. Now, the reason for expounding on this: if you add
glue to the biscuit, you're then very limited on time, and I don't see any
advantage. I build carcasses with shelves and such that may need several dozen
biscuits applied at once. With clamps and all laid in position, I take a bag
of biscuits and a small rubber mallet. Each biscuit is pushed in, then 2
hammer taps, then the next. It makes for very neat and quick construction.
My point was that a sizeable sheet may be well flat enough for the project,
but still have enough gap to the table to produce an error. It's a matter of
paying close attention to the details. I've seen as many errors with the
fence, where the torque from starting the motor jars your hold on the fence
against the piece. Seen many people starting to plunge before starting the
joiner which makes this easy to happen.
Have you ever tried one of those "biscuit" glue applicators? I've seen
TheNorm use one and they seem to speed application. I actually have a cheap
one but given the pain it would be to clean and my infrequent use of biscuits
I've never tried it.
In your tests, have you ever dissected an end-grain to end-grain joint?
Whenever I had to do this I've just used a half lap, figured biscuits would
be too weak.
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