Okay, I'm new to this woodworking thing, but I really enjoy it. The situation is, I'm looking to get some more tools but I'm not sure what is most likely to be beneficial (or at least versatile) at the moment.
I currently have a 9" Ryobi bandsaw and an 8" (not sure if that's right but the blade says 8.25") makita table saw and was wondering what you wood-working gurus would recommend as my next tool. I can't decide between a 10" miter saw, 10" drill press (perhaps least obvious use to me at this point), or an 18" scroll saw. These are the ones I have a use for (or can see a practical need for in the near future). So what order would you buy these, given the types of projects listed below and limited cash availability?
I've built a maple coffee table and my next big project is a Cherry dining table with leaf. I'm currently working on a lot of small projects though, including some beer steins for friends (like you see at those rennaissance festivals), clocks for my daughter and some friends, cutting boards, wine racks, a couple of decorative and utility boxes, and a photo album cover for a wedding gift (much inlay work...fun stuff).
I have a circular saw, belt sander, ROS, skill saw, a couple of drills, a router attachment for my dremel, which is suiting me reasonably well for now (will definitely be getting a router eventually though) and some hand tools including various saws, chisels, planes etc.
So after all that, are there any recommendations for tools I might find very useful (limited space availability) but haven't mentioned? I considered a planer, but honestly don't expect much need for one at this point.
Go to Sears Get a credit card. Go to the tool department. Charge that card to the hilt.
By the time you've paid that card off, you will have... Worn out some tools Broken other tools Thrown some tools away because they are worthless Figured out which tools that you need to pop for some big bucks, and some where which cheap is just fine.....
Interesting, I can't imagine living WITHOUT a planer. What do you do if you need a board that's 3/8" thick, but only have 1/2"??? Run to the lumberyard every time you need a special size? I'd go with the planer.
After that, a miter saw. It makes cutting accurate 45's so much easier than a miter gauge and a TS.
Can't afford a planer, and where on earth would I put it anyway? I find when thicknessing a board, it almost never really matters if one face is a little off. So I get one face flat, use it as a reference for the other face, and hand plane to the line. I don't get 100% results, but since it almost never really matters if one face is a little off...
Or build a good miter sled for the TS. I got some amazingly good miters out of my incredibly crappy Skil 3400 after I built a good, solid sled. I made a bunch of poster frames with it. I just looked at them a couple years later, and found the miters are spot on. Looking back, it's really impressive what I was able to do with that piece of junk, through the liberal application of jiggery. I'm much happier to have a real saw now though. (Or what I consider a real saw anyway. There's always some guy with three Unisaws snickering at me from the back of the room. :)
I would upgrade the TS to a 10" first. It is a lot of money but well worth it. I started with a Crapsman direct drive table top saw and when it finally broke (13 months) I upgraded to a Jet contractor saw. A bigger saw will give you much more flexibility and accuracy. I would even consider buying a used TS. They are simple machines with few moving parts, if everything is straight and the bearings are good the most you have to worry about is the motor.
I have a TS, router, planer (freebie), jigsaw, plate joiner, and a rotozip (piece of junk). I'm not sure what to get next, I'm torn between: bandsaw, drill press or a joiner (can't get it right on the router table). I'm guessing after 2 or 3 more projects I'll decide, but I'm leaning toward the drill press.
I wouldn't buy 'cheap' tools. After the Crapsman TS and the rotozip, I read a lot and go to the Borg and get a feel for the tools and buy the best I can afford. You can also rent tools cheaply and test drive them...
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but here is the truth. You have enough tools, you don't need to buy anymore. If you don't know that you need it, you don't need it. If you're happy with how your coffee table turned out then at this point the best way to allocate a limited budget is toward more wood to make stuff with. Have fun. Then when you run into situations where you find yourself running into the limitations of the tools you have then it's time to think about upgrading what you have to something more capable.
This would be first on my list to upgrade. I have one, and it needs to die.
Your dining table project is likely going to push this to its limits, but upgrading it is a want not a need.
Helpful for making crosscuts, especially when you have a small table saw, but you don't need one.
There are a surprising amount of times you'd like to make a straight hole in something. Quite a few of them it's *really* bad if it isn't straight.
Could be useful for some of the smaller projects you have on your list, but overlaps your band saw in capability.
Don't buy tools for perceived future needs. Soon enough you'll have more stuff on your wishlist than you could ever actually buy.
It really depends on what tickles your fancy. As I suggested in a response to another post, a miter sled can work wonders. It is still comparatively hard to cut angles on long stock on a little saw, or on any table saw, even with all the sleds, hold-downs and other jiggery in the world. If you're doing a lot of angle cutting on stock 4' long or more a miter saw would probably become your bestest friend in a jiffy.
My drill press is the machine of a thousand uses. I use it to put holes in things. Big holes, little holes, through holes, stopped holes, multiple holes, rows of holes. The holes always come out clean, and they're always perpendicular to the surface of the work if I want them to be. I don't even have any sanding or rosette cutting attachments or other whatnots for the thing. Just a variety of drilling and boring bits. My drill press sees tons of use because I obviously have much need in life for a multitude of controlled holes. Countersunk screws, recessed bolt holes for jigs, dowel holes, and a gazillion other holes. If you don't have much need for holes, then a drill press isn't a lot of good to you. It's quite possible to do without one with a portable electric drill and some creativity. In fact, you need both anyway. I use my portable drill almost as much as my DP because sometimes it's necessary to take the drill to the work instead of the other way around.
My scrollsaw is almost completely useless to me. I just haven't been inspired to do much of anything with it at all. Other people spend the vast majority of their shop time scrolling away, and those folks would look at me like a weirdo for taking the position that those little machines are virtually useless. I think to some extent it's because I got a crappy one that doesn't work very well.
So what I'm getting at ultimately is that it really depends on you. I can't tell you which machine you will find most useful for doing a coffee table because I've never built a coffee table. What will you do for your next project? Well, that largely depends on which machine you buy, doesn't it? :)
In the end, it's about you, how you work, what you want to do, and what trades you're willing to make. For example, as I also mentioned in that other message, I don't have a planer. I can do without it using hand planes, but hand planes are a big can o' worms, and almost a hobby unto themselves. You can do without lots of things. I find the most annoying things to do without are a good, somewhat respectable sized table saw, and a floor-standing drill press. Those two would be the last to go in my shop, although I suppose the portable electric drill would be the absolute dead last thing to go. So that must be my favorite machine.
So I guess basically if I were you, I'd dump that 8" Makita for a decent contractor's saw and start there. But I'm not you.
Ah, no, thanks. I don't use credit cards for anything and the Sears near me doesn't seem to have a good selection of power tools of the kind I'm looking for.
Actually, I use the table saw to trim the wood, and use the trim for something else like inlays. If I use a planer (my brother has one) the only thing I have left is spill cleaner. Honestly, the reason I'm not really considering a planer is space and cost at this point. Saws have much more versatility for the same price.
Actually I would have guessed you'd want the joiner from teh sounds of it, but drill presses are certainly handy. I don't do many projects where I need one at this point, but I can see future projects where I will, which is why it's in my list.
Right now, the cheap tools are all that I can afford, so they'll have to do. I'm hoping that I'll be able to sell a few pieces in the near future (already have one person asking me to build them a couple of things) so that will justify buying better tools. Right now, though, I need the tools to build the pieces. Maybe I'll try renting a couple of the better tools to do the projects and then use the money to buy them.
Oh yeah, I did consider the 10" table saw, but I got the Makita for free (brand new) from a friend and figure with the 8" I could buy something different for now and then upgrade to the 10" or maybe a 14" when I have more space and the 8" is dead.
Thanks for the advice. I actually have a specific project that I think the scroll saw will be necessary, but likely I won't buy it until I actually start the project. Your comments about using the money are good I think, though I've already factored the wood cost into all of the projects and have a little extra for a new tool...hence my dilemma. Perhaps I'll wait a bit longer and save up for some better tools.
Thanks for the advice...I originally was going to get nothing smaller than a 10" TS but this fell in my lap from a friend who won it and has no interest in woodwork. I figured I could keep it until it dies and then upgrade in size. I have access to a 10" and 14" anyway, so if I absolutely need a bigger one I can get to it, with only a little pre-planning.
I was expecting more people to give the answer "it depends" because honestly that's the situation most of the time. I just don't have enough experience to know all the versatility of each tool which is what I was hoping to hear about. I'm actually moved more to get the drill press now, since it doesn't take up as much space as some others and I can see a use for making mortises and such which I do quite a bit of (with a router bit on a dremel right now, which I don't much like.)
Pick a project....any simple project will do.... and run out to your shop and start making sawdust...
If you find you need a tool to complete that project then go out and buy what you need....Repeat the process many many times....
However I suggest that you start buying "good" tools tright from the start... Those tools you listed that you own now... may make you want to give up woodworking...
Buy one of the larger mechanics tool sets. I don't care what you do in life, you're going to use tools from that set from time to time. Save yourself some grief and buy a mid-range tool box to hold those tools. Keep the tools in the tool box. Soundly admonish any spouse or offspring that would dare to take a tool from that box and not put it back. (BTW, Craftsman mechanics tools are perfectly acceptable for the average non-mechanic).
Now buy the basics. Hammers, handsaws, circular saw, and perhaps a reciprocating saw. Buy an assortment of GOOD hammers in various weights. (I prefer fiberglass handles, but my best 13 oz trim hammer is wood-handled Plumb made in the
30's) Get use to the idea of buying "the basics" for the rest of your life.
Buy a 10" table saw. If you can afford it, buy a mid-range cabinet saw. You'll probably never have to buy another one. (Consider the need for portability. If you don't need to move it from job to job, there is no reason to sacrifice any feature for portability) Buy one of the better fences for that saw.
But the best blades you can afford. Figure out where you're going to get the blades sharpened. (This is important. Good blades are expensive. However, good blades that are dull are pretty close to worthless)
Buy several books dedicated to making jigs. Do not try to reinvent the wheel, rather use the innovativeness of other, wiser people to make you life easier. Search the internet diligently and make sure you save any gems to be used at a later time. Invest some time in 19th Century tool techniques. Just remember that they were every bit as lazy as you are. And very few of them found virtue in doing something the hard way.
Locate a supplier for Johnson's Paste Wax. It has a thousand uses from protecting wood to protecting your table saw top.
*****If you choose the neader path, then start buying planes, and the rest of this post is probably worthless to you.
Buy a 6" jointer (You can put this off for a while, but when you do get one, you're going to wonder why you waited so long.)
Now you can start to diversify depending on your preferences.
Buy clamps. (Create a tradition that for all birthdays, anniversaries and holidays, that the present of choice for you are clamps. Provide suggestion lists of which clamps.)
Buy a good drill press (Surprising to me, I probably use that drill press with as much frequency as any tool in the shop) Buy a good bandsaw (I don't use mine all that much, but that's just me.) Buy a good compound miter saw (Personally, I'm not all that enamored with those sliding miter saws. But, I use the miter saw as much as the table saw.)
Buy a good lathe (Lathe work is world until itself. I don't own a lathe, but I'll bet the turners will tell you to buy top line chisels)
Buy a decent air compressor.
Start buying routers Buy big brutes, plunge and fixed base, and buy small ones (laminate trimmers) Buy decent router bits. Do not buy the sets. You'll never use half the bits in a big set.
Buy one of the better dovetail kits. Buy one of the better dado sets
Buy assorted nail guns, including a framing nailer, a finish nailer and a brad nailer. (BTW, so far my two Craftsman nail guns have performed as well as my Porter Cable and Paslode)
It won't take very many years before you can come back and go through the post, point by point and say, "This was bullshit, and this was a good suggestion."
Well the joiner may be next. My current project is a coffee table and I need to edge join the boards for the top. This is the first time I am trying this so If I can't get it right on the router table or with a new TS blade a new joiner may be required ;-).
I finished this yesterday and am hoping it will improve my chances of joining with a router:
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how every project requires a new jig or tool...
This site also gave me some good tips:
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I still can't get it right with the router I will try a new saw blade first. I currently use a 50T Craftsman blade for just about everything.
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:47:00 GMT, "J&KCopeland" calmly ranted:
Priceless! The only problem is that each person who does this has helped the Searz Monster stay alive yet another year to sucker some thousands of other folks out of their hard-earned money.
Stop buying tools. Spend your money on timber instead.
Make things. Make a list of things to make. Make things off this list, and if you can't make one because you don't have a particular tool, then make something else off the list instead.
If you can't make _anything_ on your list because you're mising one tool, and it's under $100, and it's not electric, and it has existed for more than 30 years, then give up and go to bed. If you _still_ need it in the morning, then think about maybe getting it. Do something else in the meantime.
If a week later you still wake up thinking that you really need that grockle flanger, then buy one. Buy either a good modern version of it, or a usable old one. Never buy one in either Evil Cool Black Plastic (California's assault rifle ban does make some sense for woodworking tools), polished silver or dayglo orange plastic (dayglo is allowed for tape measures, but nothing else or you'll never find your tape measure), or one that has stripes on it. Never buy one that has "Pro" in the model name. Never buy one that _has_ a "model name". If your grandfather couldn't have gone into a toolshop and bought one by asking for a descriptive name, then you don't need it. You want a drill. Not a "Drilling System". Not a "Mecha-Force 2000 hole-r-izer". Never buy a tool that could get itself a bit-part in a Japanese giant-robot animation.
You do not need any tool with its capacity rated in "millions". They're lying.
Goddard and Townsend didn't have one. You don't need one either. The only time this doesn't apply is when it's a replacement for cheap apprentice labour, which they did have and you don't. Or rare earth magnets.
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