Before I make a mistake

I found an Oliver 4255 12" jointer that although being run hard appears to be in pretty good shape at a nearby sawmill. I can buy it for what they are getting out of it for trade in value. What do you fella's think of this deal? 1. $1800 for the planer without the 3 phase motor. 2. The guy at the sawmill will deliver it and bring a material handler to set it in place for another $300. Weighs 1400 lbs. 3. A single phase 3hp motor from Oliver with all the necessary bits to retrofit is in the $1200 range. 4. Needs to have the helical knives replaced I have no idea of that cost..
Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort? Also does anyone have experience with those helical cut knives they could share? The Oliver website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy blade change with no setting required". But it sure seems like a real "top o line" unit. This would be for a specific timber framing project and go up for sale afterwards. (Hopefully not at a loss)
Thanks guys! Knothead
BTW please post responses to the wreck. I was a fool sometime back and posted a real address and learned that lesson the hard way.
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:18:12 -0600, Knothead wrote:

How thoroughly have you checked it out? Give it the business with winding sticks, a straight edge, and a square. Hopefully they will allow you to run some stock through it as well. If it has been run hard and they're ready to trade it in, I'd have to question why.

Comparison- A new Powermatic 12" 3hp jointer will run roughly $3400 before shipping. But then, it will have a warranty.
Grizzly's largest 12" jointer (3hp, spiral cutter head) runs about the same price.
I suspect that the Oliver is a significantly better machine than either of these *IF* it hasn't been abused to the point of requiring serious TLC. If you love old iron, I think the Oliver is the way to go. But realize that you'll probably put more time into it than a new, but less capable, machine.

OK, now you've lost me.

Using a real address isn't the problem. Using your *main* real address is. Get a free e-mail account for stuff like Usenet posting. I'll send you a Gmail invite, if you'd like.
--
Joe Wells


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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:00:30 -0600, Faustino Dina wrote:

I'll need a valid e-mail account to send the invitation to (yes, you must have an e-mail address before you can get an e-mail address ...). Give me the info at my address, it's valid and unmunged.
--
Joe Wells


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Oliver is a great tool. Period. I believe the helical cutters use carbide inserts which are cnc designed to be accurate by simply screwing them in place. With lathe tooling the inserts are ground on 4 sides so you should remove one or at least inspect them. You might get more uses from the inserts. You can get a 3 hp motor for $100-$200 used and adapt it yourself unless it is direct drive. The delivery fee sounds reasonable. You will have an awesome machine but don't ever move. max

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Knothead wrote:

understand why they are selling the machine without the motor, even if the motor burnt out you would still have the rest of the stuff. $1200 seems an awful lot for a motor, typically 3 ph 3 hp motors run in the range of $300, I very much doubt if a potential purchaser will take into account that you have fitted a new motor to a nn year old machine. Unless its some very exotic faming your doing it would be much cheaper to get the supplier to do the wood prep. Different case if you are into setting up a cabinet shop or similar, but you have much better options for just the one job.
BernardR
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That's a lot of money. Is that a Direct Drive motor? Given the prices I would assume. Keep the motor and if you don't have three phase just make a rotory or static converter. It's not hard.
$1800 is a lot, but the helical cutter head does add some. If the jointer is in good shape I would spend $1800 for it with the original motor and helical cutterhed. Do not spend $3400 on this machine though! Do not spend $1200 for a single phase motor. Just get yourself a phase converter.
I moved my 1500# Porter 16" jointer for $20. The cost of the uhaul trailer, or you can spend $100 and get a uhaul with a lift gate. If you don't have an engine lift that will run you another $50 (?) at the local rental shop.

what you did to it. Just watch ebay if you don't believe me. Also, I've send 16" and 20"'ers go for a lot less that $3400.
Knothead wrote:

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Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I need to do some more homework. I just emailed the Oliver folks for a quote on the moter but it is not a direct drive so I am looking for a cheaper motor. I'm hoping Max is right and I can find a motor a few hundred dollars. This is going to be part of barn restoration and we are going to be resizing beams right on sight from a second building at the sight. Nearest place to handle these beams would be 120 miles round trip so we won't be jobbing out offsite. Distance also accounts for the delivery charge and I think 300 is reasonable since they'll drop it wherever I want. And this is well off the beaten path. I have no experience with the Oliver but the bed is two feet longer than any competitors for the same price and I have to admit all the actions and tables have excellent movement and adjustment and appear to be superior to Grizzly's like sized product. I could certainly change my mind and move it back to the shop after the project. So in the end while it sounds like it's not the deal of the century I don't think I'm getting hosed either. If I can knock the motor cost down I think I'll pull the trigger on it. Will post some photo's if I do buy it.
Joe, Thanks for the offer on the gmail account. Unfortunately I get my Internet access at work and there is a content management filter that denies most HTML type mail accounts as email viruses had become apparently insurmountable problem for the folks in IT. I'm kinda challenged at this email stuff and prefer to stay off those guys radars...
Thanks again for all your help Merry Christmas and Happy sawdust makin!
Knothead
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Knothead wrote: <snip>

At one time surpluscenter.com had some motors for woodworking machines at reasonable prices.
This is going to be part of

Are you taking any precautions about scanning the beams before planing them? Having been bitten before by hidden nails and one time by an enbeded bullet I try and avoid putting reclaimed wood through a planer, gets expensive - even more so with those helical blades.
Distance also

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Knothead wrote: <snip>

At one time surpluscenter.com had some motors for woodworking machines at reasonable prices.
I'll look into it thanks for the tip
This is going to be part of

Are you taking any precautions about scanning the beams before planing them? Having been bitten before by hidden nails and one time by an enbeded bullet I try and avoid putting reclaimed wood through a planer, gets expensive - even more so with those helical blades.
Yep, have 2 different versions of metal detector but at this point most of the nails are not much higher than as high as a man can reach... Besides the roof
Distance also

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This is going to be part of

Resizing barn beams with a planer? Why not just get a big band saw?
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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This is going to be part of

Resizing barn beams with a planer? Why not just get a big band saw?
You betcha, Woodmizer first face joint the saw cut and distress it with adz and hatchet
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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Seems to me that you just "want" this machine and are using the project to justify it - something we all are afflicted with.
Bob
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Could be mister could be.... It's one impressive hunk of iron

Seems to me that you just "want" this machine and are using the project to justify it - something we all are afflicted with.
Bob
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Shhhhhh. You aren't supposed to say that out loud.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@sprintmail.com
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:18:12 -0600, "Knothead"

Not for timber framing.
For some uses, I can see that sort of machine being useful. But for the quality of finish I need for framing work, I can buy S/H machines of this size for a lot less than that sort of money. Maybe for oak, maybe if you're feeding recycled stock and going to hit the odd nail, if the extra benefits of carbide tooling are worth it to you....
I don't know - but don't rush at it, compare what other machines you could have instead. Maybe you need a big 12" jointer, but that doesn't necessarily mean you need _this_ jointer.

I don't know Olivers....
The usual setup isn't a "knife", but rather a line of tungsten carbide inserts. This is an idea copied wholesale from metalworking, where carbide inserts have been common practice for maybe 25 years now. Their advantages are the long wear life of carbide, relatively low cost (these things are made by the million), easy set-up and alignment and especially for wide jointers, the ability to replace damage in sections.
Like many thickness planers, and a few jointers, these knives are deliberately non-adjustable, therefore don't require adjustment. You put the right inserts in, and the machining of their holder does the rest. A moderately trained operator can do it, not a tool-setter (another cost saving).
However do the maths first - what are the inserts, are any included (including spares), can you get more of them (there are _many_ variations and you need exactly the right sort) - then what will a new "set of knives" cost you ?
--
Smert' spamionam

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