Bandwidth Stealing on a WW website

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You miss the point. The point is that this is a person who has a documented history of not being an outspoken supporter of xxxxxx issue. Then something happens that mekes this person change. That is all.
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<gabriel> wrote in message> > IMHO this means precisely nill. My objection is that for some reason

well
documented
something
I got the point. My point is that there are a lot of people out there who previously didn't have an opinion who now think that the administration should do whatever it feels necessary (BTW, I don't think this - it is just an example). My point is that inexplicably, entertainers' opinions are given more credibility than mine for example.
Frank
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Frank Ketchum writes:

Of course. They have taller soapboxes.
Charlie Self "Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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Thanks to all who replied to my question. What I have found out is, there has been a case ruled on by U.S. District Court Judge in California. A snipit from www.chillingeffects.org says............
Question: Is "deep linking" illegal?
Answer: "Deep linking" refers to the creation of hyperlinks to a page other than a website's homepage. For example, instead of pointing a link at http://www.chillingeffects.org , this site's "homepage," another site might link directly to the linking FAQ at http://www.chillingeffects.org/linking/faq .
Some website owners complain that deep links "steal" traffic to their homepages or disrupt the intended flow of their websites. In particular, Ticketmaster has argued that other sites should not be permitted to send browsers directly to Ticketmaster event listings. Ticketmaster settled its claim against Microsoft and lost a suit against Tickets.com over deep linking.
From Ticketmaster v. Tickets.com opinion: Further, hyperlinking does not itself involve a violation of the Copyright Act (whatever it may do for other claims) since no copying is involved. The customer is automatically transferred to the particular genuine web page of the original author. There is no deception in what is happening. This is analogous to using a library's card index to get reference to particular items, albeit faster and more efficiently.
So far, courts have found that deep links to web pages were neither a copyright infringement nor a trespass.
So, I guess we're OK.
Just to reply to a couple of the post.     I have, and will continue to remove any link that the web site owner request. This is done without any hesitation.     My site has frames, so I have the links set up to open in a "new" window so there will be no mistake what site you are on.     There are no files of any kind "hot-linked". Any thing downloaded from one of the sites is from them, not me.
Again, thanks for all the replies. As usual, this group can be counted on for help. Oh yeah, I did put my URL back into my signature.
Jake Jarvis http://www.justwoodworking.com ______________________________________________________________________ Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened.
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Thanks for the update, I appreciate it. And it was educational too! Not enough people are so conscientious.
Jake Jarvis wrote:

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On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:46:50 GMT, "Frank Ketchum"
I agree. It means no credibility, but equally no lack of credibility. Then I read the article and find it to be a pretty good first introduction to why the Patriot Act is such an oppressive and shameful act.

This is always a risk, granted. But Rickie Lee Jones is hardly Britney.

The law has always been the property of those most able to pay for it, and this has been especially true in America.
Since some time in the 19th century, American government and law has existed to support the aims of the biggest businesses. Sometimes it has a little swing the other way (the anti-trust actions against the oil companies) but it's generally the case that any business big enough becomes either above the law, or is capable of bending the law at its whim.
If you or I wear black assault vests, threaten someone with violent "arrest" and remove their property, then it's called assault and robbery. However the RIAA seem to be able to do this without any redress or even the involvement of a court.
I saw a film tonight. There's now a trailer warning at the start, threatening 10 year jail sentences for anyone taking photographs of it. What's a typical sentence for violent assault in your locale ?
Try building a website that offers MP3s for download (several of my friends have bands). Then take a look at your website and firewall logs to see the interest the music publishing companies take. If your title happens to overlap one of their artist's title, then look out for the cease & desist letter about one of your own songs ! (and titles aren't even copyrightable, let alone that fact that it's a totally different song)
-- Do whales have krillfiles ?
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In typed:

First, IANAL (I am not a lawyer)
Next. Howard described "bandwidth stealing" very well (at least it's consistant with my own definition). However, on the broader subject of "breaking the law", if you are really concerned you need to ask a lawyer whose specializes in this field. Free does not mean "public domain". The source(s) you're linking too may have copyright and your method of linking may violate this.
Finally. In general, you should ask permission to link to someone else's website. If they refuse, or ask after the fact to be removed, you should honor the request (IMO)
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wrote:
|I'm not advertising a site or company. I have removed the URL from my |signature for this reason. This is a legitimate question. I have been |approached to remove all of my links because I'm stealing. I need some |input, please. | |If a web site has links to other sites for free plans, patterns, |articles, etc, that are opened in a new window with that site's address |showing in the address bar, does this constitute stealing? This is on a |non-commercial site with links to 100's of Free Plans and Industry |Links, of which all are of interest to woodworkers, and not requiring |anything in return. |I know there are many other sites doing the same thing. So, are we all |breaking the law? Should we fight to maintain our sites or remove |everything? I don't see where this is any different than saving the URL |as a favorite in your "Favorites" folder. | |All comments welcomed and appreciated.
You've gotten a lot of good advice on the potential legalities that I won't expand upon. However, as a practical matter, what are they going to do to you if you don't comply?
I'll give a couple of examples where I was the "victim" so to speak and yet am helpless to do much about it.
1) I wrote a technical paper that was published in an amateur radio publication. With their permission, I put a copy on my web site, along with some further information. I recently saw another paper that cited me as a reference and gave a link to my paper *on someone else's web site.* Not a link mind you; the actual pdf file. I email him and asked what the hell was going on and got zero response. What can I do about it? Nothing. Technically the publisher could go after him for copyright violation but we are in the US and he is in Canada.
2) I described gadget in another article that was published in a now defunct ham radio publication. Shortly after publication I was flooded with letters requesting that I make a kit of parts and circuit boards available. I fronted several $K to do this only to discover that in the next issue there was a ad for a new kit company and their first offering was "my" design. Oh, the owner of the new company? Why it was the editor of the magazine. What could I do about it from a legal standpoint? Nothing. (I sold all of my stuff and more BTW since I wasn't trying to make a profit. I hope I burned his ass.)
So, unless you're up against Microsoft, GM or Wally World, what's going to happen to you? Are they going to come to your town, hire a lawyer and file suit? If you think so, then take the stuff down; otherwise get a good night's sleep.
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I can't see a problem saying, for such and such, go here. Obviously they are reading the peoples cookies and seeing what directed the viewers to the mystery webpages. Unless you are behind some kind of denial of service attack. I take it you are not using anything trademarked on your site. But I suppose just take it off as it isn't worth the hassle. Who was it?
Jake Jarvis wrote:

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"Jules" wrote in message

No possible way, Jose ... stick to something you know about.
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Swingman said:

Actually, while not directly 'reading' cookies, most browsers DO offer up referring URL, operating system, and browser type info.
FWIW,
Greg G.
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"http_referer" is not through "reading the peoples cookies" ... you know that as well as I do.
Besides, NEVER trust any browser passed variables .. they're too easy to spoof. :)
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Swingman said:

Hey, I agreed with you concerning the 'reading cookies' bit, I was just pointing out that for statistic analysis, many sites use http_referrer - even though not secure.

I certainly wouldn't trust them for anything important, but how important could knowing OS, browser and referring URL be? ;-) Most web surfers don't bother spoofing, and they can reveal minutely interesting trends (at best).
Shoot, is there anything you don't dabble in? <g>
Greg G.
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"Dabble"!!?? ... I don't "dabble", I _conquer_ ideas and concepts at every opportunity and bend them to my will! ;>)
Besides, I haven't told you about the buffalo hunting, brumby wrangling, bare-knuckle fist fighting days, and other careers ... yet. <g>
"Dabble" .. hummpph!
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Swingman said:

LMAO! Perhaps you should work for the Gubment on Nuclear (Nukular for you Bushites...) Fusion projects. They could use a little help with idea and concept bending...

Brumbies? Do you mean wild Australian horses? Buffalo? Now you're dating yourself... <g>

I figured that would get a rise outta ya... <G>
Greg G.
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<Greg G.> wrote in message

Thought I was kidding didn't you? You betcha ... but they were rideable, for the most part, and were used, along with a small fleet of Land Rovers, to hunt wild water buffalo in Arnhem Land and Cape York peninsula area in the early 60's. The guy I worked for exported the meat to the US for pet food ... don't get me started. ;>)
BTW, I am still looking a for a BIG planer.
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Swingman wrote:

Some browsers have built-in facilities for spoofing them. It is in this fashion that I must visit Home Despot's web site, for example. It won't talk to me unless it thinks I'm running either Nutscrape or Internet Exploder, so I have Konqueror masquerade as Internet Exploder in order to trick it into permitting me access. (The site works perfectly well after this ruse.)
One more reason I like Lowe's better than Home Despot. Lowe's requires no such trickery.
(Fortunately, Konqueror is pretty clever in this regard. It has a list of what it needs to pretend to be at which sites, so this is all transparent once initially configured on a per site basis.)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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Greg wrote:

That's helpful. Why the grandstanding? Children watching?
Greg wrote:

Well I thought it could be done somehow. Where is there a law written that you cannot do this. Or did Jake sign some agreement. They are just trying to scare him with the theft word. It's the people that use the link that are using the bandwidth. Jake's link is on his bandwidth.
If this website is so concerned can't they rig the page so if you don't have a cookie picked up from their intro page, you can't view a plans page? It seems we all only dabble in it. Any consensus, without the escalation.
I want to know who it is? If they really said this to Jake he is not compelled to keep it secret.
J
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I looked at your free plans page and it is very nice. And you obviously qualified the plans somewhat. Perhaps if you left the link there but only in plain text. Say go there, for this. Then you are not linking but providing directions to people. Who was it?????? What webpage does the owner not want us to see??? But take down the contact information to just a hotmail account or something.
Jake Jarvis wrote:

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"Jake Jarvis" wrote ...

Bandwidth theft is when you offer access to a file stored on a web or FTP site that is linked from one of your web pages where the target is downloaded directly from the other location but the person downloading has no idea of this. For example, on my web site I offer a free download of a piece of shareware software. Another individual in the past put up a web site also offering the same download from his site. However, when people downloaded from his site, his code directed them to my directory, without their knowledge, and he used my monthly download allowance to provide this software without giving any hint as to where the file was actually stored, and without giving the visitor a chance to view my pages.
Now, if he had simply linked to my software page, he would have been guilty only of furthering the goals of the internet - a free exchange of information. That's what we all want. Instead, he offered the software under the guise of being the originator of the download but saved himself the cost of paying for the bandwidth by making me do it for him. That is wrong.
I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds as if you are providing a directional service for which this other person should be thankful - you are increasing their traffic. If you were linking to an inside frame without the benefit of their navigation bars they might suggest you use an alternate URL but accusing you of bandwidth theft is improper as, from what you have written, you have not done anything of the sort.
--
Cheers,
Howard
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