Looking to buy first & last bandsaw. Actually I've been looking for quite a while now for an older Delta or Rockwell but I have not come across anything within reasonable driving distance of where I live (north MS). So, I'm going to splurge and buy a new one - looked on Delta's website to see what is "current" and the only one they list (oddly) is a 28-206 which is just a 14" 1HP jobber. (What is the deal with that - are they coming out with new lineup?) I'd like at least a
1.5HP model, so what are other options? Considering Grizzly 514 or
555. Budget ~$850, no more than $1000 tops. Ideas?
Well, it really depends on what you will be doing with it. I have a Delta 14", and many times wished I had risers for it but when I was buying I didn't think I needed it. I use the fence very little. When tuned up, it gives a nice accurate cut.
Heeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrsssss. Leon! Just finished my bowl of soup....Steve... ;~)
Dukes..... you want your first and last..... hmmmmmmmmmm
You really need to decide what that really means..... Pretty simple really but this is not as simple as you might think.
For about 20 years I owned but did not use very much a Craftsman 12" 1/2hp BS. Under powered and a PIA to keep set up correctly.
About 3 years ago I decided I wanted a bigger more robust BS with more bells and features. I jumped up to the highly recommended 18" Rikon. I read many articles about it and heard great stories about it. I ordered it sight unseen with the understanding that I could return it if unsatisfied, no questions asked. Three weeks later I returned it, I had never done any thing like that before.
The Rikon was an improvement but not nearly as big of an improvement as I was looking for. Had I kept it, it would not have been my last. I wanted my last one also.
Don't get me wrong here the Rikon is worth every penny but $1000 would not buy a "new" BS that I would consider my last.
I wanted a BS that had plenty of power. I wanted a BS that would resaw with ease. I wanted a BS that ran relatively quiet. I wanted a BS that did not have to be readjusted 7 ways to Sunday every other time I used it. I wanted a BS that was easily adjusted when adjustments or blade changes were made.
I learned that for me my last band saw was going to have to be much better than what a "new" $1000 saw had to offer.
Sooooo I started looking at the more expensive saws.....the saws that were in my price range happened to be MiniMax and Laguna. Neither are inexpensive.
Ultimately I ordered the Laguna, LT16-HD. 3 years later I can confidently say that this saw is my last BS.
If you are relatively unfamiliar with band saws it will be hard to explain why you want certain features and not others.
Why I chose the Laguna...
Buying the Rikon I thought I wanted roller bearing guides....In little time I hated roller guides. The Laguna uses ceramic guides, 10 ceramic guides. The upper guide has an upper and lower ceramic guide on each side and a rear ceramic guide. The lower has the same set up. The blade can touch the ceramic guides with out building up heat and this also keeps the blade clean and free from debris. I found that roller guides would stamp the debris on to the blade and made the blade dirty and very difficult to clean. This created vibration and noise.
The Laguna is a beast. You can tension a 1-1/4 wide blade with little effort and the saw holds it shape. WHAT? One of the problems with less expensive saws is that they have to be fiddled with to get them to cut properly. When you use larger blades you have to tension them more. With cheaper saws the saw frames will distort slightly. When they distort the blade tracks differently and you have to adjust the upper wheel. Normally adjusting the upper wheel requires the readjustment of the upper and lower thrust and side guides.... Going from a 1/4" blade to the 1-1/4" blade requires no additional adjustment from the upper wheel, on my particular model. Naturally you have to readjust the upper and lower guides when changing blade sizes but the blades all tend to track correctly with out having to fiddle with the upper wheel adjustment. I cannot remember the last time I made an upper wheel adjustment.
My particular Laguna came with a 220 volt 4.5hp Baldor motor.... Resawing wide hard wood IS NOT a problem.
I normally keep a 1/2" blade in the Laguna and when I want to use the saw I simply retention the blade, no other adjustments needed from that point.
Basically I wanted a saw that was ready to go when I was.
Regardless of what you decide on, I would strongly advise you to go to the Laguna web site and view the band saw videos on line. These videos are very educational and will explain what you should look for in a bandsaw.
Here is what Laguna has to offer on bandsaws.
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is their bandsaw video location, scroll down closer to the last bandsaw videos.
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last thing, Laguna has a less expensive line of saws that are near your upper limit. I am not so sure that one of those would be what I would consider my last BS. I would suggest that if you want a "last band saw" you should consider the HD line of saws. While these HD saws are indeed way past your limit I found that for me $1000 on a saw that did not get me to where I wanted to be was a bigger waste of money than the extra I spent on the Laguna. With the Rikon I would have had a better saw than my old Craftsman however I feel that I would not have used the saw unless I had no other choice for making a cut. With the Laguna I look for reasons to use the saw, it is that much more of a pleasure to operate and use rather than constantly having to adjust. Keep in mind that as a blade warms up it will stretch during use. This on many saws will require retensioning of the blade, readjustment of the upper wheel, and often readjustments of the upper and lower guides.... I only have to retention the blade on my saw. If you want your last saw, save up for your last saw, don't let the $1000 you have now burn a hole in your pocket.
If you have any other questions please feel free to e-mail me...or ping me.
Having gone through all this you may be perfectly happy with a less expensive saw.
Thanks for the information. I'd certainly consider the Laguna models you're referring to if I had that kind of budget (and 3phase power). Barring any emergencies, I suppose I could save for a few more years or so to get where I could buy that, but in the interim I have a list of projects, but without a saw (and I've been waiting already as it is). I don't dispute the capability of the saw, but at the same time, if I went by this logic, for me, I'd have a house with 10,000 square feet and 5 bathrooms for just 2 people, and I'd drive a Dodge 3500 to pick up milk & eggs at the grocery store.... Of course there wouldn't be any money left to buy anything other than milk & eggs, but that's another story!
I bought an 18" Jet about seven years ago using similar criteria (first and last). Can't testify regarding last yet (because I'm still breathing), but I have been quite happy. I saw quite a bit of 8/4 hardwood for custom rocking horses and other projects and the large table is a plus for that. It has plenty of power for 8/4. I have resawn thicker but admittedly resawing use is limited.
A couple of minor cons:
1) The lower rollers are a pain to adjust, but easier with experience
2) It uses an odd-length blade that seems to be proprietary to that saw. But if you have a local source for custom fabricated blades you might get them made cheaper than retail anyway.
Might look at Grizzly too. They have some similar machines.
Thanks for the information. I'd certainly consider the Laguna models you're referring to if I had that kind of budget (and 3phase power). Barring any emergencies, I suppose I could save for a few more years or so to get where I could buy that, but in the interim I have a list of projects, but without a saw (and I've been waiting already as it is). I don't dispute the capability of the saw, but at the same time, if I went by this logic, for me, I'd have a house with 10,000 square feet and 5 bathrooms for just 2 people, and I'd drive a Dodge 3500 to pick up milk & eggs at the grocery store.... Of course there wouldn't be any money left to buy anything other than milk & eggs, but that's another story!
Cheers
These saws do not require 3 phase power.
Capability of the saw was not the main point I was trying to indicate. The $1000 saws will do what the Laguna saws will do but you will probably find that you spend as much time tweaking the saw each time you use it as you do using it. Maybe not, you may be happy with what the saw is capable of producing. Band saws have a lot of adjustments that all need to work in concert with each other to deliver a good cut. The better built the saw the less the adjustment in one area will affect adjustments in other areas. I have been doing serious wood working for a bout 30 years now, started when I was 23. I have been down the road of getting the tool that was adequate but through trial and error and experience learned that the tool that is the easiest to use and does what it is suppose to do is the one that you are going to value and actually use the most.
I do not know your financial situation and will not pretend to know what is best for you. But, you did indicate that you wanted your first and last BS. IMHO $1000 saws are not going to be your last unless your experience with them is so bad that you give up on them all together. And while a new saw gives that "new car" satisfaction and you don't think you will mind making adjustments, more often than not the new does eventually wear off and the adjustments become an irritant. Imagine having to readjust your TS rip fence every time you changed blades or started a new project. Even this is necessary with most less expensive BS's. If you look at an earlier post by GarageWoodwork he was commenting that his $1000 saw was not giving him the results he was looking for when resawing 6" wide cherry. He seems to think the fence is the problem. Out of the box so to speak my Laguna was giving me oak veneers that you could see through, with no fence adjustment at all.
Additionally every one seems to have an opinion as to which "brand" is the best blade to use for this or that. Oddly with my Rikon I had the worst problems with the top brand blades. The free blade that came with the saw actually worked the best as did the blade that I had made at a local shop. It was a crap shoot every time I tried a new blade as to whether it would perform decently or even track correctly. So far in the last 3 years it has not mattered which blade I put on the Laguna, the freebies that came with it, the Timberwolf's that I purchased myself, or the Laguna ResawKing blade, they all track correctly and with out any need to ever readjust the top wheel tilt between blade changes.
$1000 is a lot of money to spend on a piece of equipment that you would not use an equal amount to other tools costing that amount.
Again IMHO you might be better served to look for a good used older Delta BS, something 7-8 years or older and not put out the money on a more expensive new saw with features that you may not like. Test the waters with a less expensive saw and learn what will make the saw do what you want it to do. Unfortunately BS's unlike most all other shop equipment do require much more user input to keep them cutting optimally. The less you have to make those adjustments the more you will enjoy the saw in the long run. You will actually find other uses for your BS....LOL... I now use my BS to cut up fire wood that is too large to put in the fire place. And oddly I learned that older fire wood is a great source for cultivating your own exotic spalted veneers.
2) It uses an odd-length blade that seems to be proprietary to that saw. But if you have a local source for custom fabricated blades you might get them made cheaper than retail anyway.
Might look at Grizzly too. They have some similar machines.
RonB
Odd length blades are not really a big problem as I have learned although I cannot buy locally unless I have one made locally. My saw uses a 150" blade. Timber will make any length blade you desire in a wide variety of styles. Like their premade blades they charge by the inch and I was never charged more per inch for a custom length than for a stock blade. And their service and knowledge is pretty good. They do want you to be happy with their product.
When my Rikon BS was on order I ordered blades from Timberwolf for it. I was able to immediately start using those blades when I got the saw. Unfortunately I had tracking problems that could never be resolved even with calls to Timberwolf first and later to Rikon. Timberwolf asked me to cut one of the problem blades to see if it would lay out straight which it did and was suppose to do. Long story short they replaced that blade free of charge and after returning the Rikon and buying the Laguna they took the shorter unused blades back in exchange for the longer blades for the Laguna. I only had to pay for shipping and the difference in the price for the extra
The 513 is likely a decent saw. For a bit more you can get the heavy-duty version, which has a larger table, cast iron wheels, and an upgraded fence. The guides are slightly different as well...not sure if they're actually an improvement or just different. For another $100 you can get the foot brake, which is nice if there might be others around since it lets you stop the blade quickly.
I've got a Steel City 18". It's roughly equivalent to the G0513X2B but with a smaller table and crappier fence.
It has no trouble tensioning a 1" blade, it holds its adjustments reasonably well, and I use the foot brake a lot. On the downside, the fence isn't great, and the blade guard needed some modification--from the factory it's difficult to install large blades without removing the guard. I've resawn 8" of dry hard maple without difficulties, and it went through almost 12" of green birch for turning blanks with ease.
Leon, while I've got it in mind, I wanted to ask you, have you used your Domino to attach 3/4" thick face frames? If so, how well does it work for that purpose?
Back in October I was working on the bedroom towers project where I was assembleing the 2 frame and panel sides, back panels and front face frame to the 4 seperate shelves, top, bottom and 2 mid shelves for each tower All of the outer panels and face frames attached to each of the shelves with 8 doiminos on each shelf, 2 per side of each shelf. The corners of the outer panels and face frome were simply glued to each other. Basically each outer panel attached to 4 shelves with 8 total domino, 32 dominos total. That was enough to worry about aligning properly as I had 4 different style outer panels/face frames on each unit.
A trial dry fit to see if I had been lucky enough for all 32 dominos to come together on 8 selerate planes resulted in a cabinet that could be stood up, perfectly fitting, with no fear of seperation.
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