My experience was two years ago and they would not offer me any break unless I purchased an accessory package that I did not want, or traveled 250 miles to a show, at which I could pay tax and then figure out how to get it home.
I bought someone else's saw.
It may be a great saw, but I found their pre-sales support to be aloof, unmotivated and unaccomodating.
-Steve
Apparently a lot has changed. Contrary to what I have heard about Laguna they have been very helpful. I told both the Laguna salesman and the MiniMax salesman that I was going to commit at show time and that I was going to see and touch the saw before deciding. Both were very respectful of my concerns and both told me that regardless of which brand I bought that it be my last BS that I would have to buy and would be hard to beat in quality and performance.
I bought the 18" Rikon when Woodcraft first started stocking it. I don't have any wobble in mine. I've had nothing but good experience with it.
No doubt. Timberwolf indicated that the new models with the different tension release were having problems.
That'd do it for me. I can't stand those types of sales people ether. I have, on occasion, been known to point that out to salespeople as well. . . . . in a nice way, of course...'cept once.. *muses at the memory*
Dreyfus, DeVito. 1987. "Tin Men"
So tell me something. Is the Jet just another re-badged OAV or is it actually made in a different factory? I am still thinking and researching my own purchase and damn near all the saws we can get down here are re-badged OAV I have found out, Carbatec, Holytek, Magna, Trupro ... and they all look exactly like the pictures I have seen of Ricon and Jet. Most of the difference seems to be in guides used and accessories (tension release lever) and motors.
I'd be grateful if somebody could confirm or deny,
-Peter
"Peter Huebner" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net... "Peter Huebner" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net...
I can confirm that most Name Brand companies that do not own their on manufacturing facilities typically want the manufacturer to make their saw look and function like the Italian made Band Saws. Where they are actually built really does not matter too much unless they are not built by an ISO manufacturer. Just because a tool or machine is not built in the USA, Canada, Taiwan, or Europe does not mean that you will not get a quality built machine. Typically however you do not want to pay much for a quality built machine and you know, you get what you pay for. For the most part the American market demands low prices and unfortunately many that buy the cheaper brands do not know what to look for in a particular machine and often gets sub par quality. The quality standards are set by the company that puts their name on the product. Whether Jet, Delta, Rikon, or Grizzly are built in the same factory or not, it all boils down to what they require out of the manufacturer. Manufacturers are flexible and they can build as much quality, fit and finish or features as the company that they are manufacturing for wants. I'll say that I have been in this situation wanting to save money on a machine and who isn't. I purchased a Rikon 18" BS and waited over 2 months for its delivery. When it arrived it was in a fantastic crate and well protected. Inside bubble and shrink wrapped and every thing looked perfect. The quality appeared to be very high however I found that features seemed to be added that were not really cutting edge. When compared to the Delta 18" saw it seemed superior even after I decided that the Rikon was not up to the standards that I was looking for and returned the Rikon 2 weeks after I got it. IMHO most name brand wood working machinery is INEXPENSIVE for what you are getting. If you demand higher quality spend more money. I see band saws selling for $400 and jointers for $350. 20 plus years ago I paid about those prices for a Craftsman BS and jointer. The band saw was half plastic and the rest was aluminum. I would venture to say that after
20 plus years of inflation and with some of these machines still being in the same price range that you are certainly getting what you pay for. I have come to realize, I think, that I need to buy Old machinery that was expensive 20 plus years ago and maybe have to rebuild it or spend more money so that I get what I Want rather than what appears to be the best bargain. Because the economy is good and that there are more wood workers today than in the years past demand is up and so is the competition. The businesses that are having machines made today are in many cases building a machine that they think that the consumer wants and not often a machine with features that really matter.Talking to both MiniMax and Laguna and Timberwolf I have learned and realized that most band saws are filled with unnecessary bells and whistles. The money that you spend on a BS goes towards those bells and whistles when it should be going to better specific parts. Both Minimax and Laguna have indicated that they gave gotten caught up in the wants of the customer vs. what really makes a better machine for the customer. Five years ago 2 hp was enough power to resaw 12". 3 years ago 3 hp was enough to resaw 12". Today it takes 4.5+ hp to resaw or at least that is what the consumer thinks. So both have upped the hp on their 16 heavy duty saws. I was one that was caught up in the quick tension release feature. My Craftsman required turn after turn after turn to tension and distension the blade. My Rikon saw had the new design release lever that should have more correctly named the less tension lever. So far the MiniMax and Laguna do not offer this feature. They simply use Acme threads instead of the fine threads on their tension mechanisms and I can say that this set up works pretty good as witnessed by me on my Rikon when I simply turned the tension wheel 3 or 4 times. Anyway my advice is not to look only in your price range. Look also at the expensive stuff and "educate yourself" Then start comparing features and see which one you really need and which actually fall into the bells and whistles category. I think you will find that spending more money and waiting linger if you have to is going to typically get you a better tool that requires less setup and daily tweaking, and one that should actually last a lifetime. Don't blame China and Taiwan for the quality you get, blame the company that you give your money to for not requiring higher standards of the machinery that they are having built.
{snip}{snip} lots of stuff that I basically agree with.
China, I am reserved about, very reserved - I've just had too many abysmal experiences. Taiwan I am _quite_ willing to consider; they've come a long long way in the last 15 years.
Unfortunately it seems that you and we have almost no brands in common, the exception being Jet - which is sold as slightly up-market here but which I have also read a lot of negative comments by some reviewers about. So my thinking is: IF the Jet is an OAV, then I might as well get a cheaper one and get the accessories I need/want during negotiations. The motor size craze hasn't hit here yet, most shop sized 20" saws are sold with a 2 horse motor, only the sawmill resaw jobs have 5hp..30hp. Your point about the tension release lever is well taken. I'm sure I'll pay more attention to solid wheels and the kind of guides I want over that feature.
I can actually get access to three Italian brands but Laguna is not amongst them: Lazzari is one, and I can't recall the other two names. But they are nearly twice the price for a smaller (!) saw (16" vs. 18").
My policy is to only buy very good quality tools, always - it pays off even in the short run. I'd rather wait and save than waste my money on stuff that'll end up in the junk pile in short order. But I simply don't do enough woodwork (it's my long term hobby, not my job - I only rarely take on commissioned work) to really warrant a 3700 NZ$ expense on a 16" B/S.
-Peter
I certainly see your point but the Chinese are capable although we do not often see it.
Snip
Laguna is an American brand built by SCM in Italy IIRC. They seem to put more R& D into the out come of the version that they sell. Yes the Italian brands are pricey, Ferrari pricey. I'll be paying almost 3 times what I paid for the Rikon.
Unfortunately for me I had to learn the hard and more expensive way on many of my purchases. Well, my first nail gun was a Senco which turned out to be a top of the line tool back in the late 80's. :~)
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