Band Sawing in the UK (LAWS)

Page 4 of 4  

saying that a bandsaw may bea

This page "suggests" that it's "sorta" true...cf para 4...
http://www.geoffswoodwork.co.uk/page%20six.html
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Risk management?
Probably saves on healthcare, but it sound a bit like a rapala hitting the water.
saying that a bandsaw may bea

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

This isn't quite accurate on the details and the attribution, but it's not all that far from the truth.
(Legally speaking) People under 18 are "young people". Under 16 are "children". Most rules like this kick in at 16, not 18.
There is no licence for bandsaw use. The employer may have some responsibility for ensuring that people are "competent" to use the machine, but this isn't tied to a formal licence. As is general with most (but not all) UK worshop safety legislation, it's the responsibility of the workshop operator to judge what is "competent". There's no test they have to apply beforehand, but if there is an accident, then they have to justify their decisions in court.
Mind you, as we've seen with railway maintenance operators and the student at Shoreham dock, a large company can get away with killing workers quite carelessly, and there's no effective legal redress.
In contrast, the UK has quite good laws on machine safety and the rules applied to the machine itself (this is easier to inspect than a workforce). There's a legal requirement for certain sorts of guard, and for the machines to not carry on spinning for a long time afterwards.
There are plenty of bandsaws in education, being used by people under 16. If there weren't, Startrite wouldn't have such a good business in selling vastly over-priced bandsaws with huge yellow guards on them otherwise.
So really it's the school's rules in effect here. You _could_ use the bandsaw, but only if the workshop operator feels that they can offer a suitable level of supervision for the people involved. You might have a large class there, and I'm sure you have a couple of idiots in it. Your CDT teacher just can't say "Use the bandsaw" or there _will_ be accidents.
If you look like you're not an idiot, and if the class isn't busy, then most CDT teachers become far more flexible about what you can do in the workshop. When I was at school, a few of us spent all our lunch hours in the workshop and we used _everything_. It was only a dozen or so of us though.

A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine. It has a blade that will injure fingers badly and allow you to remove them by pulling your hand away, but even then you're looking at surgery rather than losing the finger altogether. Actual amputations with bandsaws are pretty rare. It's also easy with a bandsaw to see where the nasty bit it - this is a small area and you can avoid it.
In contrast, jointers and planers have a reputation for not just taking the finger, but helping themselves to the whole hand. Circular saws will amputate a finger quicker than you can pull it away and they also have the lovely risk of "kickback", where they can throw a piece of timber across the workshop and hit someone else entirely with it. And spindle moulders are worse.
I have kids (8 and upwards) in my workshop, and I let them use the machines whilst supervised. The drill press or bandsaw are OK. The table saw isn't, just because it's big and you need to have long arms to be able to use it safely. The jointer is on the "dangerous" list, but the planer is safe because you work that from the other end of the board. The welding gear is safe to use too, so long as I've set it up first.
--
Smert' spamionam

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Sun, Nov 14, 2004, 1:16pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@codesmiths.com (AndyDingley) <snip> A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine. <snip> Yup, you'd think. But, so is one of those paper cutters, where you have to use one hand to hold down the clamp, and the other to work the lever, so it's plysically impossible to get your fingers near the blade while it's being used. So, one of my clerks, in Germany, was trying to impress the German secretary from upstairs (a cute female German). So he offerred to cut the paper for her. And, proceeded to cut the tip of one of his fingers off.
I'm not real sure how you'd define that little act. An idiot doing something a genius couldn't pull off, maybe? Definitely no doubt about the kid being an idiot tho. He was really amazed when he came back to the office, stands behind me, and says, "Sarge?", kinda worried like. And, I didn't even look around, just said, "You hurt yourself, didn't you?". He just couldn't understand how I knew that. I just knew him. My kids might hurt themselves, but at least they aren't idiots.
JOAT Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification. - Publilius Syrus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Sun, Nov 14, 2004, 1:16pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@codesmiths.com (AndyDingley) <snip> Circular saws will amputate a finger <snip> I knew a guy (friend of my dad) who almost did himself in with a circular saw. He was cutting something, and pinned the guard back. And, then proceeded to cut the thick part of his thigh, down to the bone - nicked it. And, he survived it - after about a 6 month recovery period. I think he was going to rest it on his leg, forgetting the blade was pinned back. If he hadn't screwed with it, he probably wouldn't even have had a nick. Every once in awhile the government, or whoever, gets things right. Unfortunately, too often, they screw it up instead. But, whoever thought up that circular saw guard idea was doing good that day.
This was the same guy who used a piece of cardboard to pattern a shotgun. And, leaned it against his aluminum fishing boat. He wound up patching a whole LOT of holes in that boat.
JOAT Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification. - Publilius Syrus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
JOAT writes:

Fairly common, and stupid, procedure. A few years ago, a guy was trimming the bottom line of some vertical siding boards for me, using an old gear driven Skil saw. He pinned his guard back and went about the job. I asked him not to, but he told me he did it "all the time." I went around the building, because it made me nervous to watch. He was fine, and probably still is, but the procedure saves about two seconds a day in such work, and is dangerous as all get out.
Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 15 Nov 2004 10:29:53 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

there are times when pinning the guard is necessary, generally during things like awkward compound angle cuts where you need one hand to control the wood and one for the saw and the angle of approach won't allow the guard to retract via contact with the edge of the board. the thing is to pin the guard in such a way that it unpins easily and as automatically as possible. on a skil77 (and most others, too) this can be achieved with a pencil wedged between the thumb lever (for manually retracting the guard) and the body of the saw.
there is always a certain amount of pucker factor during such an operation....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My dad is a part time wood turning tutor at an Adult Education college. He once showed me a machinery guidance manual he was issued with while on a safety course. It was mainly written for schools, although sadly most of the rules also apply for adults attending his courses.
As far as I recall it states that responsible students are allowed to use table top bandsaws like a 3 wheel burgess (subject to proper instruction / supervision of course), but should not use floor standing models. (Personally, I think tabletop bandsaws are probably less safe than a well designed full sized machine).
I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule, thankfully the advisor agreed that his adults could use a proper bandsaw once they'd been shown its correct use.
I think there was also something about qualified adult students being allowed to use a tablesaw.
If I remember correctly table mounted routers, spindle moulders and radial arm saws were not permitted.
They also objected to the use of a roughing gouge to remove the corners from square stock on the lathe, favouring bandsawing them off as safer. Not something we would agree with.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
saying that a bandsaw may be

Yeah - my thought was, if you're on a budget, I'd be tempted to buy a mini bandsaw before I bought one of those mini table saws you found.

What does he say about a table saw? Is that OK?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Here's one education authority's policy document on workshop hazards. www.kirklees-ednet.org.uk/subjects/health/docs/policy/1artdesigntechnology.doc
The relevant chunk is on page 16, here's some highlights:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Cheers Andy,
So that basically means that maybe he can't let us use it @ skl but there's no reason not to use it at home, right?
SB

oc
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I think it means it's a per-person decision.
I let under 16s use my bandsaw while I'm watching, and I let a few who are familiar with using it use it without me watching them. But I'm in a workshop with maybe two or three people in it, not a busy class. I'd be very reluctant to let anyone use it, in a school class environment, but lunchtime "woodwork clubs" and the like would be a different situation.
Your best way to get bandsaw access is to behave yourself and show that you can be trusted with the tools you are allowed to use.
--
Smert' spamionam

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So, basically if you are 16 or younger you are allowed to use a sander? Maybe a drill?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 16 Nov 2004 06:45:24 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@nhsd.k2.pa.us (David Hall) wrote:

I'm not familiar with CDT these days. But there was a time in the early '80s when _everything_ was acrylic sheet, scrollsawn, drilled, heated and bent over a hot-wire line bender, then shaped on big disk sanders with quadrant guards. "Woodworking" as we think of it hereabouts to generally involve a lot of solid timber just wasn't part of it.
I was at school through the '70s. I did a year of woodwork and learned nothing. We didn't touch any machines. I did a full course of metalwork (O level) and learned a reasonable bit, mainly turning. I did far more of either at home, although not much wodworking.
I also heard one of the wisest comments from a teacher I've yet heard. The metalwork teacher pointed out that almost none of us would end up in hands-on engineering. Of those few that did, we'd be working 40 hour weeks as apprentices, doing nothing other than engineering. Compared to an hour or two a week and this "O level" we'd acquired, we'd do more in a few weeks apprenticeship than we'd done in our whole school career. I was never an apprentice, but I did spend a few weeks on a basic industry apprentice's metalworking course (so as to qualify as a chartered engineer, although I was mainly a physicist). My teacher was right.
--
Smert' spamionam

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.