Band Sawing in the UK (LAWS)

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phenomenon, but not familiar with the term.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser

or, they're cold and dead because you cut THEM off..
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Both? I can't think of a way to do that, but I suppose someone's done it. Seems to be no end to the bizarre 'accidents' possible with tools.
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:32:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser

You need a licence to stand _near_to_ someone else using a chainsaw.
This rule is generally observed in woodlands - it's the insurer's rule, rather than a legal requirement, The HSE rules only extend to operators, but it's now awkward for your liability cover if you have anyone who's not a ticket holder anywhere on a site where you're sawing.
On public "art events" though, where there's some chainsaw carving going on, even basic safety rules go out of the window. Lots of real cowboy stuff there, and one day there'll be an accident and the tabloid papers will go berserk for a "Ban These Evil Machines" campaign.
There are a series of licences for chainsaw operators, light felling, heavy felling, and working at height with chainsaws. You're not even allowed to buy a top-handle chainsaw without the right licence.
As to the actual injury rates, forestry in the UK has a good safety record. If you hear of an accident, chances are that it's a farmer with no training, no safety kit, and using an ancient unbraked saw that was being hard to start.
--
Smert' spamionam

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wrote:

and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new one requires a license which he most likely doesn't have, but he does have an ancient chainsaw with no safety features.
Law of unintended consequences sucks, doesn't it? ;-)
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:17:10 -0700, Mark & Juanita

Great justification - shame it's entirely untrue.
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wrote:

Based that upon your earlier posting indicating a license was needed to buy a top-handled chain saw. After your subsequent posting explaining that the top-handled chain saw is not the same as what we here in the US would think it to be, I stand corrected.
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It sounds kind of odd to me too. With the bandsaw or scrollsaw I've always gone with the..... if you stop pushing it,it stops cutting your finger off.... kind of thing. You would have to be trying to cut your finger off with one of them . With that said ,anyone remember the link someone posted here a few years ago with pictures of a guy who committed suicide on a bandsaw? Jim
saying that a bandsaw maybe a

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On 14 Nov 2004 08:00:13 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can accomodate dado blades.
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita

There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell any machines big enough to use them).
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wrote:

My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, for example, <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm 211059.0210240433.5753385b%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DUK%2Bdado%2Bblade%2Barbor%2Bban%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3Ddb211059.0210240433.5753385b%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2>
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:37:17 -0700, Mark & Juanita

Well in that case DCs also suffer regular static explosions.
There is _no_ UK law against dado sets. There is a law (part of PUWER 98) that requires a rapid stop. As this is awkward to achieve with a heavy dado set (you'd need to fit electric braking, which is expensive), the cheapest fix for new retail machines is to shorten the arbor.
If you have a long arbor you can still use it. If you have a long arbor you can still sell it.
If you want to use a machine in a commercial workshop - any age of machine - it now needs to comply to this spin-down regulation, even if that requires retrofitting a brake. OTOH, we did get 5 years warning of this ruling coming into effect.
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Andy Dingley responds:

What's the spin down time. If it isn't instant stop, a la Saw Stop, it seems useless to me. A hand stuck in a dado blade is going to get chewed up about as much as possible in 30 seconds as compared to 60 seconds.
Spin down time and the use of electric brakes on power tools have always seemed to me to more beneficial in stopping the blade quickly so the next operation can be started, not as a safety measure, though it might also serve as such on some circular saws (Skil type) and one or two miter saws, always assuming those don't have guards.
Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
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On 15 Nov 2004 14:38:42 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

It's not about stopping it in an accident, it's about avoiding those old heavyweight machines (chiefly bandsaws and spindle moulders with iron heads) that carried on turning long after they'd been switched off and gone quiet.
Here's a useful site: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/woodindx.htm
and here's the relevant link http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis38.pdf
--
Smert' spamionam

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Andy Dingley wrote:

Andy, I'm a bit confused by this comment. The Freud dado set sold by Machine Mart (p. 296) specifically states "NOT to be used on any machine with electric braking".
Bob Martin
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wrote:

That's the problem. Most saws (all retail size ?) use a left-handed nut to lock the blade onto the arbor. With a heavy dado set, rapid braking may cause this to unscrew.
Laws require moderately rapid braking.
Some saws use simple electric braking to achieve this, which is very quick indeed.
Rapid braking is definitely unsafe with simple LH nuts.
Therefore you can't use a dado set on a simply made saw consistent with most of the saws complying with PUWER.
You could achieve this safely with an extra arbor lock. If you have a 3 phase saw with a VFD (variable frequency drive) it's possible to brake more gently at a controlled rate, which would be safe with dado heads, rather than simple injection braking. Either of these mechanisms add cost though and I don't know of machines that do it.
UK practice for a large production shop would be to use a moulding head on a moulder or planer, rather than a dado head in a table saw.
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Smert' spamionam

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wrote:

dado%2Bblade%2Barbor%2Bban%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3Ddb211059.0210240433.5753385b%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2>
I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length. There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't say they were widely available, however Machine Mart now stocks them, including in the EU standard 30mm bore.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p 0620496
Dado blades don't seem to be popular in industry - at least I've never seen a set in a liquidation auction.
There could be a problem with recent safety rules requiring the blade to come to a halt in under 30 seconds. New saws are electrically braked so I guess there might be a risk of the dado blade's inertia loosening the nut or just taking too long to spin down.
(These rules aren't enforced for hobbyists and one man businesses)
There is a uk Health and Safety sheet on table saws here:- http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf
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[...]

AFAIK wobble dados are forbidden.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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Juergen Hannappel writes:

Well, hell, that even makes sense, but has zip to do with safety. They're nasty tools, hard to adjust, leaving a V shaped groove bottom, and they sound awful.
Now, ask me how I feel about wobble dado sets.
Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
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Not to mention how much sawdust they raise, even at a distance, when they wind up. Only thing that scares me worse is the molding cutter I once owned.

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