Band Sawing in the UK (LAWS)

[Lobby Dosser]

I think all of our chainsaws in the US are top-handle. Don't remember seeing anything else. I see the top-handle as offering better control.

[Andy Dingley]

Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw.

All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A "top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and control any kickback.

They're basically dangerous and uncontrollable. They're only justifiable if you're working up a tree and need one hand for yourself

- more an arborist's tool than a lumberman's. If you get a kickback, the saw _will_ jump up, because you simply can't control it in one hand. Your only hope of vaguely safe working is to reliably always know that when it jumps, you aren't where it's going to be heading. This requires skill and practice.

[Mike Marlow]

Are you quite sure about that Andy? I looked at one on a web site and it looked like a two handed saw, just that the right hand grabs a handle that is on the top rear portion of the saw instead of the very rear of the saw. All the same, it looks to be very much a two handed saw. It certainly does not look as easy to control as a standard configuration.

[Mark & Juanita]

Based that upon your earlier posting indicating a license was needed to buy a top-handled chain saw. After your subsequent posting explaining that the top-handled chain saw is not the same as what we here in the US would think it to be, I stand corrected.

[Mark & Juanita]

My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, for example,

[J T]

Sun, Nov 14, 2004, 1:16pm (EST+5) [e-mail] (Andy=A0Dingley) A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine.

Yup, you'd think. But, so is one of those paper cutters, where you have to use one hand to hold down the clamp, and the other to work the lever, so it's plysically impossible to get your fingers near the blade while it's being used. So, one of my clerks, in Germany, was trying to impress the German secretary from upstairs (a cute female German). So he offerred to cut the paper for her. And, proceeded to cut the tip of one of his fingers off.

I'm not real sure how you'd define that little act. An idiot doing something a genius couldn't pull off, maybe? Definitely no doubt about the kid being an idiot tho. He was really amazed when he came back to the office, stands behind me, and says, "Sarge?", kinda worried like. And, I didn't even look around, just said, "You hurt yourself, didn't you?". He just couldn't understand how I knew that. I just knew him. My kids might hurt themselves, but at least they aren't idiots.

JOAT Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.

- Publilius Syrus

[Doug Brown]

well I did a quick google search and all the "top handle chainsaws" I found seem to be one hand only - see

and for examples.

[J T]

Sun, Nov 14, 2004, 1:16pm (EST+5) [e-mail] (Andy=A0Dingley) Circular saws will amputate a finger

I knew a guy (friend of my dad) who almost did himself in with a circular saw. He was cutting something, and pinned the guard back. And, then proceeded to cut the thick part of his thigh, down to the bone

- nicked it. And, he survived it - after about a 6 month recovery period. I think he was going to rest it on his leg, forgetting the blade was pinned back. If he hadn't screwed with it, he probably wouldn't even have had a nick. Every once in awhile the government, or whoever, gets things right. Unfortunately, too often, they screw it up instead. But, whoever thought up that circular saw guard idea was doing good that day.

This was the same guy who used a piece of cardboard to pattern a shotgun. And, leaned it against his aluminum fishing boat. He wound up patching a whole LOT of holes in that boat.

JOAT Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.

- Publilius Syrus

[patrick conroy]

Yeah - my thought was, if you're on a budget, I'd be tempted to buy a mini bandsaw before I bought one of those mini table saws you found.

What does he say about a table saw? Is that OK?

[Lobby Dosser]

Then I've Never seen them here. Your description may be the reason why I've never seen them here. Pros I know here use the standard models one handed while up a tree.

>

[mac davis]

or, they're cold and dead because you cut THEM off..

[Lobby Dosser]

Both? I can't think of a way to do that, but I suppose someone's done it. Seems to be no end to the bizarre 'accidents' possible with tools.

[Charlie Self]

Fairly common, and stupid, procedure. A few years ago, a guy was trimming the bottom line of some vertical siding boards for me, using an old gear driven Skil saw. He pinned his guard back and went about the job. I asked him not to, but he told me he did it "all the time." I went around the building, because it made me nervous to watch. He was fine, and probably still is, but the procedure saves about two seconds a day in such work, and is dangerous as all get out.

Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

[Andy Dingley]

No, because there will always be some other design out there that I've not seen. If there's room on the top of the case, then there could well be space for another handle, or just more handroom in a longer handle.

That would probably be even less safe - it encourages you to use it as a two-handled saw, but really you're still only getting a single grip on it. It's not the number of hands you're using, it's the distance you can get between them.

[Andy Dingley]

Well in that case DCs also suffer regular static explosions.

There is _no_ UK law against dado sets. There is a law (part of PUWER

98) that requires a rapid stop. As this is awkward to achieve with a heavy dado set (you'd need to fit electric braking, which is expensive), the cheapest fix for new retail machines is to shorten the arbor.

If you have a long arbor you can still use it. If you have a long arbor you can still sell it.

If you want to use a machine in a commercial workshop - any age of machine - it now needs to comply to this spin-down regulation, even if that requires retrofitting a brake. OTOH, we did get 5 years warning of this ruling coming into effect.

[George]

That Solo even _looks_ dangerous. Appears that these actually have two hand-holds at right angles, however. I'm sure most people use both simultaneously. Guy who sold me my first saw years ago used to show the left hand - less index finger - and say "when you're holding both handles, it can't happen."

Oh yes, never drop-start your chainsaw with the throttle lock engaged.

[Mel]

I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length. There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't say they were widely available, however Machine Mart now stocks them, including in the EU standard 30mm bore.

blades don't seem to be popular in industry - at least I've never seen a set in a liquidation auction.

There could be a problem with recent safety rules requiring the blade to come to a halt in under 30 seconds. New saws are electrically braked so I guess there might be a risk of the dado blade's inertia loosening the nut or just taking too long to spin down.

(These rules aren't enforced for hobbyists and one man businesses)

There is a uk Health and Safety sheet on table saws here:-

[Juergen Hannappel]

[...]

AFAIK wobble dados are forbidden.

[Charlie Self]

Andy Dingley responds:

What's the spin down time. If it isn't instant stop, a la Saw Stop, it seems useless to me. A hand stuck in a dado blade is going to get chewed up about as much as possible in 30 seconds as compared to 60 seconds.

Spin down time and the use of electric brakes on power tools have always seemed to me to more beneficial in stopping the blade quickly so the next operation can be started, not as a safety measure, though it might also serve as such on some circular saws (Skil type) and one or two miter saws, always assuming those don't have guards.

Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

[Charlie Self]

Well, hell, that even makes sense, but has zip to do with safety. They're nasty tools, hard to adjust, leaving a V shaped groove bottom, and they sound awful.

Now, ask me how I feel about wobble dado sets.

Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken