Band Sawing in the UK (LAWS)

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wrote:

My, that looks a bit dangerous. With the throttle at the point of balance of the saw the grip is really just a pivot point. Given the choice I think I'd rather be taking the limbs off by hand.
-j
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wrote:

Here's where some confusion comes in. If you've never used a chainsaw, I guess it's understandable. All chainsaws do not have a top handle. Conventional design is for a rear handle and a left side handle. Your left hand grabs the top of the handle, but it protrudes out of the left side and gives control over the saw body. What they don't have is a top handle.
Top handle saws move the rear mounted right hand position up to the top center of the saw - BUT, the left hand remains as in the case of the conventional design. No chainsaw is designed to be used one handed.
Your right hand does not control kick back. Your left hand does. It's the hand that exerts force downward. The right hand is not supposed to rock or pivot against the tree dogs as a lot of people do. You certainly can do that, but the saw is designed to cut straight down through a log. Pivoting the saw is an indication of a dull chain or a novice user. Kick back occurs one way and one way only. The very front of the bar has to come in contact with something. The tip of it. Your left hand is what resists that kickback should it occur. Pivoting the right hand can produce kickback if the bar is burried in the tree, which is common with trees that are larger in diameter than the saw bar. Pivot the bar past 90 degrees and you hit the point where the tip of the bar is the contact point. Guaranteed kickback. Not probably - guaranteed.

This is patently untrue.

Equally untrue. That would be the worst time for an ill managed saw. But then again, these are not a design that is inherantly ill managed.

This is pure bull. The saw is always going to kick back in a consistent direction. Unless you're a contortionist and a very strong one at that, you'll not be able to get the saw in a position so that kickback is not going to bring that saw directly back to you. Skill and practice have absolutely nothing to do with it. Nobody learns how to control kickback and put it to some useful purpose. Kickback is something that is avoided at all costs. The only safe way to use a chainsaw is such that you are always in the direct path of kickback, so you make it a practice to avoid kickback.

The right hand is always just a pivot in that you use it to keep the saw level. The saw does not look to be any more dangerous than a conventional design and in fact appears that it could be an advantageous design for some applications.
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:17:26 GMT, "Mike Marlow"

http://www.stihl.co.uk/html/default_fr.php?category=product
Here's the type of saw I'm talking about. Ask Stihl where the brake controls are. You can work out the rest of the terminology yourself.
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wrote:

I don't understand Andy. From the picture (I looked at the MS200T) it certainly looks like there is a left hand grip wrapping down the left side of the saw. The chain brake - unless there's something new that is not even mentioned in the product description is not operated by the operator of the saw. It's an automatic function if the chain breaks and starts to fly back toward the operator. Unless you know something that is not highlighted in the product brief on the web site, there are no brake controls. Clue me in?
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wrote:

Sorry - forgot to include in my other response, I didn't see any mention at all of one handed operation. I think you're misinformed as to the one handed intent of these saws.
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Brake's the same place, though I also wonder what that extra red toggle up forward might be. Since the chain brake is designed to bring the chain to a halt in the event of a kickback, it's located perpendicular to the kickback vector and in front of the leading part of the operator.
The thing's a close-quarter saw, not a one-hand saw. Imagine the attorney fees if they were to call it such?
wrote:

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You learned someplace else, I guess.
Rocking the saw, actually tilting the nose up or down alternately, is a tactic to cope with large logs so that the chain speed can be kept at or near full. By tilting, less wood is in contact, chips are more easily ejected, and the whole operation's safer.
The reason the handle mounts around left is for felling.
You'd probably have a cow watching a good woodsman plunge a veneer log to prevent heart pull.

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I'll stack our UP cutters with the best. The guy who taught me to fell and cut took a Maple and a polar with a pickup jammed between them down one night without a twig falling on the two pinned occupants or we two medics. Good friend in more ways than one! The vehicle moved more from the jaws than the trees.

Sorry, go back to your geometry book. Any secant is shorter than the diameter. And I said "tilt." How do you force a saw without pushing? Aren't you presuming?

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I'm sure of that. We have some of the best in the Adirondacks also - well, we used to. I don't doubt for a minute what you say about this fellow, but I'd invite you to show him my comments and ask him if he takes exception with them.

Me - presume???? Banish the thought. 99% of the people who tilt a saw do not lift either the front or the back while they tilt the saw in order to lift part of the chain out of the wood. They rock the saw against the dogs and pry the saw. That results in full chain contact all the time. If you did lift, you're cutting less wood - takes more time to cut. Keep your chain sharp and cut straight through and that's the fastest way as well as the way that strains the saw the least. Neither one of us probably has the luxurey of getting out and watching the loggers these days, but watch the logger games on TV. When they cut the butts cuts for time, look at those saws - straight down through and straight up through the wood. If your saw needs lifting to keep the rpm's up it's underpowered, the chain is dull, or you're horsing the saw way too much.
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Under powered? THAT we can agree on. I'm using a Farm boss with a 20" Oregon, and 20" of maple is more than I should be working. Makes nice bowls, though. Especially if you tilt the saw when ripping for shaving clearance.
I get to go to the woods with cruisers, piececutters, and even my former ambulance partner's husband, who has a few million in automatic harvesting equipment to play with.
Sometimes I get to go to the woods to pick up those idiots who file the depth gages off their chains so they can cut faster.

If you

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034 here with an 18 inch bar. I had a an 040-something with a 22 inch bar which was way overkill. Got rid of it and got the 034. When I was putting up 22 cords of wood a year it was a great saw. Now I use it for smaller work and I wish I had one of those 020-something saws. The amount of tree that I get into these days that really requires an 034 just isn't that much. But... it's been a good saw and I'll keep it forever, I'm sure.

Another point in common. I was a Cardiac/Trauma Medic for 12 years. Both vol and paid.

Ummmmm.... errrrrrrr.... I have to admit I've done that before. Cutting down the rakers makes for a very fast cut, but man oh man, hang on to that saw. I actually did it because the chippers had been filed away enough that the rakers were keeping them from cutting. Smart people go buy a new chain at that point, but I just had to get all the mileage I could out of my chain. Never really had a problem besides having to develop a much tighter grip on the saw, but at some point I really did get smarter and started buying new chains when they got to that point. You actually can file them down a bit and not cause any problems, but it just isn't worth it. Chains aren't that expensive.
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I miss my 032, but when his magneto went out, I was able to swap him and $150 for the farm boss. I don't cut in the woods now, so the "homeowner" grade doesn't bother me. My wood arrives every year by truck. Ten full cords, and cash only keeps the price down, and the driver makes sure he's got enough outsize and oddballs to keep me in turnings.

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On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:30:38 GMT, "Mike Marlow"

you can do it right and take off the same amount as you take from the tooth, but to be really consistent about it you'll need a machine...
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Yup. I've got the file guide that rides on top of the cutter so that you don't over file the raker, but I didn't have it back then and since then I've just gone to replacing my chain when it gets down that far.
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George wrote:

I did that once, umm, summer of 1977. When the chain was sharp you could bog down and kill the McC. when going through a pine log. Extremely fast cutting.
What's the danger? The tip was free so there was never any kickback. I had to hold the saw up somewhat or the engine would die. The volume of sawdust around my right foot was incredible.
-- Mark
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Limbers often have poor body position, and sometimes even forget their leg is on the other side of the piece as they reach, and even brace themselves against the cut. They lose a touch of footing, and the saw's through and beyond.
As the practice here was to pay by the piece, there were a lot of shortcuts taken.
Kickback is unaffected by filing, as far as I know. Saw doesn't kick when it's cutting, just when it's not. Only accident more gruesome than a kick was the result of drop starting with the throttle lock on. Like we all haven't done it, right? Lose your grip on the rope and the bar rotates downward around mid-tibia.

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George wrote:

BT, DT, got blood on the tee shirt... I learned to ONLY start the saw on the ground!
-- Mark
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He said, demonstrating his ignorance for the world to see, "Can anybody, in simple terms, tell me what a 'heart pull' is????"
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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The heartwood of even an otherwise sound tree is sometimes weak. The feller will plunge the saw into the center of the tree, sweeping the nose left and right so that the stress of falling won't leave a couple feet of fractured heartwood standing proud of the rest of the cut.
These folks call it stump pull. http://web.cocc.edu/logging/szlinks/stump_pull.htm
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