Asked a commercial cabinet shop about their SawStop(s)

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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 06:32:19 -0400, Joe Bemier

after year there is a proven direct correlation between the consumption of ice cream and the incidence of rape. Look at any year and you will see that starting in January as the total amount of ice cream per week or month increases, so do the number of reported rapes. Some might be tempted to proclaim that this is proof that the consumption of ice cream causes rape and decide that we should outlaw ice cream. I suppose others might conclude that rapists must consume vast quantities of ice cream after doing their crime and thus police should stake out Ben & Jerrys to look for rapists.
Others might be tempted to note that both ice cream consumption and rape tend to increase and decrease as outside temperatures vary.
I believe Mark Twain noted that there are three kinds of lies...lies, damned lies and statistics.
Dave hall
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<clipped>
| In a Political Science class I once had it was pointed out that | year after year there is a proven direct correlation between the | consumption of ice cream and the incidence of rape. Look at any | year and you will see that starting in January as the total | amount of ice cream per week or month increases, so do the | number of reported rapes. Some might be tempted to proclaim | that this is proof that the consumption of ice cream causes rape | and decide that we should outlaw ice cream. I suppose others | might conclude that rapists must consume vast quantities of ice | cream after doing their crime and thus police should stake out | Ben & Jerrys to look for rapists. | | | Others might be tempted to note that both ice cream | consumption and rape tend to increase and decrease as outside | temperatures vary. | | I believe Mark Twain noted that there are three kinds of | lies...lies, damned lies and statistics. | | Dave hall
Reminds me of the book "How To Lie With Statistics" by Darrell Huff. It covers a multitude of ways to mislead (lie) people. It's probably time to blow the dust off it and re-read, refresh and re-arm myself.
John Flatley
--
My generation never got a break. When I was young they
taught me to respect my elders. Now that I am older,
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Joe Bemier wrote:

Not only that-- the way they scale their charts is almost always extremely misleading. Say, for example, they've got some stat that's gone from 1012 up to 1097 over some period of time. That's under 8.5%, not very impressive really. So they start the Y axis of the damned chart at 1000 instead of zero and end at 1100. Now the number goes from near the bottom to near the top, and it looks like whatever they're reporting has octupled. It drives me crazy.
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 06:32:19 -0400, Joe Bemier

Very true that is why I asked. I used to crunch numbers and I would always ask what they wanted the chart to look like. You can take exactly the same dataset and make the answer pretty much whatever you want, simply by adjusting the terms of the view.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

The SawStop would cut plastic just fine. I don't know about aluminum but it will cut embedded nails and staples without triggering the stop action. Since the SawStop is cabinet saw (a very good one from the reviews), I don't see the point of the construction comments.
I know of woodworkers who have lost fingers to table saws because of a moments distraction. The SawStop would have prevented those accidents.
And no, I don't work for SawStop or sell them. I'm one of those Harry Homeowners.
Jess.S
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I have heard of this happening several times from posters in the group. LeeValley has gone this route and I would not be suprised if WoodCraft follows that trend now that they actually sell the SawStop.

I have only heard of 1 complaint/problem with the SawStop having a false positive. SawStop corrected the problem and IIRC the person having the problem was reported to have later had a positive trigger that saved him from injury. Do a DAGS to locate the post in this group. Other than that I have only heard and read praise about the machine from ACTUAL users.
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Leon wrote:

I think the machine itself is great. The saw appears well-made, operates smoothly, generally a nice piece of equipment. The stopping mechanism is impressive to watch (saw it at a wood show).
At the moment it's too expensive for me as a home user (half again as much as a made-in-Canada General?), and I think the political machinations are despicable.
Chris
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manufacturers follow Powermatic in starting to add more safety features the saw will come down in price.

IMHO until you actually loose a digit you may never agree with how it is brought to market. I was always careful and lost half of my thumb to my old Craftsman saw. As careful as I am I still had the accident after finishing the cut and after turning the saw off. My position is that in this particular case I think every one would benefit from this device because proper technique does not guarantee freedom from injury. Say a child sneaks into your shop and turns the saw on and the unthinkable happens. There are millions of possibilities.
I am kind of like a parent that becomes involved in the prevention of a disease after he looses a child to that disease. You really don't see the big picture until it is too late. The government got involved and required kids to be immunized before starting school and as a result many child hood diseases were almost wiped out. Unfortunately the government does not enforce this as strictly it has in the past and some of those diseases are on the rise. I am sure there are still some parents that wish the government had not gotten involved in immunizations also. Whether your view is pro or con IMHO this is one of the situations where government involvement would better serve the general public than many other situations it is involved in. I don't want the government involved any more than the next person but in this situation I can find it easier to swallow that pill.
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Leon wrote:

Sorry Leon, but that is not correct. Having been employed with public health for 17+ years, I can assure you the enforcements are even stricter than before. However, your observation that there has been a rise in the incidents of childhood infectious disease is correct. If you look at the demographic breakdown, you'll see that the rise is occuring due to illegal migrants. The mexican, central and south american countries do not have the same level of immunization laws and required compliance as America.
--
Dave
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The rise in illegal migrants was what I was getting at. Sorry for the choice of words in that respect.
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Leon wrote:

Ah, I understand now. :-)
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Dave
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It's amazing, I wonder what people did before illegal immigration came along to blame for all of society's woes...
Is there anything that can't be blamed on illegal immigration? I mean the illegal folks didn't elect the criminal inhabiting the white house or invade Iraq did they?
John E.

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We didn't complain as much because we didn't pay as much in taxes to support so many other people, illegal or not. Nor did we educate people in 20 different languages. Or try to.
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No need to go to Iraq to invade a country. All they have to do is walk across the border and invade this one.
todd

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John Emmons wrote:

This isn't stuff made up to simply blame illegal immigrants, it is an unfortunate reality. In our health district alone, it was becoming an almost an overwhelming chase to try to track down the families of illegals to try and get the kids immunized and to get TB testing done. In LA County there were over 180 deaths last year due to measles; these outbreaks were primarily among the unimmunized kids of illegals.
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Dave
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Dave Bugg (in jNKOg.71$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe03.lga) said:
| John Emmons wrote: | || It's amazing, I wonder what people did before illegal immigration || came along to blame for all of society's woes... | | This isn't stuff made up to simply blame illegal immigrants, it is | an unfortunate reality. In our health district alone, it was | becoming an almost an overwhelming chase to try to track down the | families of illegals to try and get the kids immunized and to get | TB testing done. In LA County there were over 180 deaths last year | due to measles; these outbreaks were primarily among the | unimmunized kids of illegals.
This isn't exactly a new scenario. I think I recall reading that immigrants brought the first cases of smallpox, cholera, and several varieties of VD to the Americas - leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and the demise of at least one major culture.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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John Emmons wrote:
SNIP

No, the "former" Cubans did (see election results - Florida)!
If you think Isreal's lobbying capacity and influence is pretty powerful - check out the Anti-Castro Cuban American influence. Wonder what they'll obsess on when Castro dies?
charlie b
My first "hard liquor" drink was a Cuba Libre - in Panama. At least "la revolucion" had one positive affect.
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John Emmons wrote:

word "criminal." From what is written above, it is obvious that you do not.
Glen (who is amazed at how supposedly educated individuals throw loaded words about with no regard to accuracy or truth)
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:57:38 GMT, "Leon"

Not trying to start an arguement here, but how would a SawStop have helped you in the circumstances you describe? Or maybe you weren't trying to make SS' case with your accident. It wasn't clear to me which (nor was it in all the stuff I snipped).
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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I believe the Sawstop system stays active until the blade stops spinning.
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