Asked a commercial cabinet shop about their SawStop(s)

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Been in production use for 2 years in the small building I was at. I was told the main factory had another 12 of them. Last summer they sold all the Powermatics and Unisaws (10) at an auction.
They loved the saw, and it had made two saves for them in the last 2 years, both ended up with a tiny scar after a band-aid was applied. The workman's compensation claims would have been HUGE.
Alan
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wrote:

Since this is a controversial subject it would be appropriate for you to name the organization that you speak of and provide contact information so that others may check for themselves.
Frank
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On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:24:27 -0500, Frank Boettcher

Yeah, good point. Especially the second paragraph sounds more like an advertisement to me.
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Frank - we've made exactly the same decision here... replacing all of our table saws with Sawstops... (14 at least, probably more...)
I hope none of them ever goes off - but I can almost guarantee at least one will eventually. I can also tell you from personal experience that the fine for at fault accidents (and this is determined by a trial) is 100K. That does not include Workmans Comp, legal fees, or management time.
I can also add that all of our staff really like the saw too...
I don't find two "saves" to be a stretch at all...
Statistically - an invidual isn't likely to lose a digit, and makes decisions accordingly. Statistically as a corporation, we're likely to have an accident with the number of saws we have and the number of users - so we make our decisions accordingly.
Cheers -
Rob Lee
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wrote:

Good for you, Rob, and pardon my ignorance in the event you are a regular poster to this newsgroup, well known to all but me, but who is "we"?
Frank
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Frank Boettcher (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| Good for you, Rob, and pardon my ignorance in the event you are a | regular poster to this newsgroup, well known to all but me, but who | is "we"?
Rob is the President of Lee Valley Tools Ltd, and generally lurks more than he posts.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Frank Boettcher wrote:

Rob runs Lee Valley Tools.
Chris
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Robin is president of Lee Valley Tools who I believe are the largest hand tools retailer in Canada. Request a catalogue online and I expect you'll become a customer.
http://www.leevalley.com/
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Hi Frank -
I'm just a guy who doesn't like staff with with stitches.... :)
(As noted - Lee Valley Tools.)
We have 13 stores - each with a woodshop (for staff to use, and for building displays, giving seminars etc...). Our manufacturing and R&D shops also have saws... Should also note that we've stopped using dado sets too... nothing wrong with them, there are just safer ways to achieve the same thing in our environment (many users, multiple skill levels).
I personally have an Inca with a sliding table (and riving knife) - so won't be buying a Sawstop.
Cheers -
Rob
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wrote:

Rob,
Thanks for responding. It's good to have a substantiated claim by someone who has made the decision to move in that direction, and I hope you were not offended by my lack of recognition.
SawStop has been somewhat controversial and I've detected some trolls in the past when this subject comes up. I suspect that if, the quantity of table saw injuries that have sometimes been put on this board without substantiation were true, someone from my organization would have be in deposition twenty-four hours a day.
The controversy, in my opinion, is not in the area of advancing the technology which is a good thing, but in getting the UL/CSA standards boards or the goverment to mandate the technology and force it on every manufacturer. I'm not in favor of that.
Based on the crowd they drew at IWF this year and years past, they should be able to promote the technology without the mandate.
Frank
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wrote:

That's good info, Rob. I particularly note the fact that you will not be buying one for personal use. Further reinforcing the opinion that the technology is good in some applications, but should not be forced on those who don't feel the need.
On a side note; I will be interested to know if your *fire rate* exceeds that of historical accident rates. In other words will the safety mechanism result in operators becoming more sloppy.
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That would be trading down as Sawstop does not offer a sliding table.

Operators should not become more sloppy just as gun owners did not become more sloppy when the safety was added. A blade spinning at 100 mph and the fact that a blade that is not spinning will still cut you should be enough of a deterrent.
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:35:28 GMT, "Leon"

For whatever reason, Leon - the point is he won't be buying one.

You are citing logic (and I agree with you) but, I'm interested to know the reality. There are many *should nots* in this world but we can never depend on that. Here's one- People *should not* operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated.
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Exactly. You wanted to attach an opinion,
Further reinforcing the opinion that the technology is good in some applications, but should not be forced on those who don't feel the need.
So did I.

Well, I see the point you are trying to make, I think, however should we not try to improve because we know that we cannot protect against every senerio?
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Maybe, although your argument is less than compelling. (I don't think I would be trading down from my Ryobi, just because I would be giving up a sliding table<VBG>.)

I agree it shouldn't. But it would be nice to see data to support or refute that (not that LV's experience, even over many years, would be statistically significant).
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

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LOL, yeah, I forgot to include the brand saw he is using also.
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wrote:

In a shop where they are using uiniform materials in a repetitive process that makes sense. What happens the first time Harry Homeowner decides to chop up some plastic or EEEK, aluminum?
Some of us do other thinghs beside fine cabinetry.
It also makes me wonder how many of these "saw accidents" were guys on a metal framing job/trim job with "chopsaw" or just the guy you see on a ladder with a skilsaw or cutting 2x4s on his knee. You see that if you are around construction sites very much..
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I think it was snipped-for-privacy@aol.com who stated:

Uhhh . . . I suppose Harry puts the saw in "Bypass Mode" to temporarily disable the brake and does his aluminum cutting, perhaps? I don't think plastic cutting is an issue (I read the owner's manual on the SawStop Web site). What is "EEEK"?

The SawStop doesn't have anything to do with either of those situations, does it? Duh.
--
"What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman

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wrote:

I was just wondering how many "accidents" in the statistic they used are also irrelevant.
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:00:47 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

For sure it is a valid question. Statistics are very easily portrayed as one wishes. For example - The death rate among persons over 63 who quit smoking is higher than those who continue to smoke. This is a true and valid statistic. Thus, statistics can be very misleading. Most of the statistics we see in our daily lives are worthless because we don't have associated information. USA Today likes to print fancy looking charts and graphs to go with a particular story. However, try to find the confidence interval or standard deviation to go with the data. The charts are nice, but unless we can see how the data was prepared and the variable, it means very little.
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