Anybody see "Alone in the Wilderness?"

[Bob Schmall]

"Untouched by man" means "other than himself."

[Charlie Self]

Mike Marlow responds:

I've thought about it, but...I once lived in Albany and if it were that cold here, I'd have a generator and a second back-up furnace! As it is, we've survived a full week of winter with no heat other than what came from a few candles. The house never got below about 55.

It seldom drops to 0 here (every fifth winter or so), and when it does, there's usually no real weather problem. It's the thaw days in February and March, quickly followed by ice storms, that ambush you. The area averages much less snow in a typical winter than Albany used to in one storm. Biggest storm I've seen here was a few years ago, maybe 16", and, because it was windy, it was called the blizzard of '99 or whatever year it was. Warn't no damned blizzard, though, by an stretch.

Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Swingman]

set·tled; set·tling : to establish a residence or colony.

Yep ... by a race whose gene pool was brimming with self-sufficiency and self-reliance. But no matter the extent of subject traits inherent in the original "occupiers', they were inarguably no match for the European "settlers".

[Swingman]

Often "better living condition", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. A good bet that Proenneke subscribed to that. I've seen backwoods landowners get downright rich on oil and gas royalties and still live, by choice, in the manner to which they had been accustomed ... downright squalor according to yours and my standards.

[Bob Schmall]

They were certainly no match for the settlers' germs. Well over 90% of the natives who died did so from disease carried by the Europeans.

[Robert Bonomi]

Been there, done that. My folks did a -major- remodel of the house, one that involved somewhat more than doubling the square-footage. Couldn't see any reason to rip out/replace a perfectly good furnace, so it was dedicated to the 'old' half of the house and a 2nd unit put in to handle the 'new' half. Secondary advantage of having effectively 'zone control' of the environment.

20+ years later, in the middle of a *really* cold spell (like highs of -15f, lows below -30f), it penetrated consciousness that the 'living-room wing' furnace was running practically constantly, and had been for some days. Investigation showed that the bedroom-wing furnace was stone-cold dead.

When my mother came up for air at work (circa 4:00 PM) the next day, she calls the HVAC company. "One of my furnaces just died -- can you schedule somebody out to quote on a replacement?", she says. Poor receptionist at the heating company apparently doesn't hear the "one of.." part, and is apologizing profusely how they _can't_ get anybody out there that day, due to the lateness of the hour, that all the installers had already left for the day, but that they would have somebody out to the house "FIRST THING in the morning!" to look over the situation. To which my mother replies, "Tomorrow is not convenient... can we schedule something for next week?" Stunned silence from the other end of the phone, followed by *utter* bewilderment and non-comprehension. Takes several minutes to get sorted out the fact that the house is _not_ without heat; that conditions are 'livable'; that this is =not= an 'emergency'. :)

Anyway, having dual heat plants provided the "luxury" of the time to get competitive bids from several sources, _and_ get a _2nd_ round of quotes, when it was noticed that everybody was quoting furnaces that were about _double_ the size of the plant being replaced. The estimators looked at the size of the house, apparently, and quoted on that basis -- not noticing the -other- furnace at the other side of the basement, and didn't read the plate on the dead 40-year old furnace.

AMAZING how much the prices came down, 2nd time around. Making it clear that this was -not- a 'rush' job probably also helped.

A '_hot_ spare' furnace is a *GOOD* thing to have. You never know when you might find use for it!

[AArDvarK]

...So GLAD I live in southern California! little dinky gas heater on our hall wall (compared to a furnace)...he he! Sometimes it hits just below 32º. Even then some lit candles and coverings will do the trick.

Alex

[Charlie Self]

Alex gloats:

Of course, on smog days (9 out of 10?), a deep breath is the equivalent of smoking two packs of cigarets. Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Larry Jaques]

On 15 Aug 2004 14:08:06 GMT, [e-mail] (Charlie Self) calmly ranted:

HelL.A. has about a third of the smog it did 20 years ago. I'm impressed at the cleaner (but still brown) air. It's probably down to half a pack now. ;)

We were onset by L.A. or San Diego smog about 10 days per year in Vista, not bad but not something I liked. I don't miss much from there. (Especially not with twice the shop space, now heated and air-conditioned.)

Soon there'll be a San Francisco/San Diego Metropolitan area--1 city covering 600+ miles of coast extending inland about 90 miles.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- The more we gripe, *

longer God makes us live. * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

[Michael Daly]

The gene pool is in need of men that can't live in society?

Mike

[AArDvarK]

I hate to say it but CA is a LOT bigger than that! It is the 5th largest economy on Earth big brother! That means "area". Alex

[Charlie Self]

Alex responds:

Which earthquake fault line do you live on?

About half of CA is too steep, or too high, to live on, too.

Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[J. Clarke]

Nope, it means "business". And what does area have to do with smog?

[AArDvarK]

It has to with where the smog is (on my part)... like several dots of it here and there, at the big cities. CA is GIANT. A very small EQ fault where I live, less than 5 miles from downtown's topographical center. Here on the coast I am at the 101 freeway so there is smog, but less because it is the coast, it is still incomparable to the L. A. basin in smog content. Worlds most perfect weather with very-very low humidity. Some parts of Italy may match most of that, maybe the south of France too but they have humidity.

Lotta Hollywood stars, producers, directors, writers, and rock'n'roll stars live here too. On the street you could talk with Dennis Franz, Dennis Miller, Johnathan Winters.... If anyone wanted to live here it would be easy to study where the worst faults are at, but real estate is WAY up high!

This is intended as "friendly" conversation... not arrogant challenges and cutdowns.

Alex

[Swingman]

That's a real stretch ... heretofore no one has remotely implied that those who are self-reliant and self-sufficient can't "live in society". AAMOF, look beyond 'dates and names' in human history and you'll understand that these traits are what "society" is built upon.

[Michael Daly]

Other than the only example you gave.

Hardly likely, unless you assume that history is made only of a small minority who do that. It's trendy (and very American) to claim that the bold, self-reliant individualist is the reason for greatness. But that has nothing to do with historical fact, where the majority are folks who get up each day and do the same thing they always did and create a society based on mutual reliance and support (aka, community). Community barn raisin' beats slugging it out alone if you really want a decent life.

Mike

[J. Clarke]

If it were not for the guy who was willing to ignore the inertia of the community and go try something new though, we'd still be cat food. Communit barn raisin' only works if somebody has figured out how to build a barn.

[Swingman]

LOL! Now don't go blaming your leap to conclusions on me ... I gave no example.

Ah hell, you either want to argue to justify a jump to conclusions, or you really can't see that it takes self-sufficiency and self-reliance to build a barn in the first place, even collectively ... either way we aren't going to agree, so let's call it a draw and drop it.

[Bob Schmall]

No, keep going. It's a classic topic for a good discussion (which you're having): the primacy of individual genius or community. Here's one idea: Shelby Foote in the Ken Burns Civil War series said something like, "We Americans like to think of ourselves as uncompromising, but our true genius lies in compromise, our whole country is founded on it."

Among many, many examples of the discussion is the agrument between W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington regarding the direction of the black community in the decades after the Civil War. DuBois believed in the "Talented Tenth," the leaders educated at the best schools who would inspire the community with their wisdom. Washington said, in effect, "Phooey. Let's raise ourselves up by our bootstraps and educate all of us in the manual arts, so we can build our own infrastructure."

Then again, Anonymous said, "The fool tries to adapt the world to himself. The wise man adapts himself to the world. All progress is due to the fools."

Bob

[Swingman]

The traits under discussion "self-reliance, self-sufficiency" and "community"/"society" are not mutually exclusive... the argument/implication that self-reliant, self-sufficient folks are necessarily anti-social, or "can't live in society", is bogus.

Communities are not unknown to possess the same traits as the individuals who populate them. Pretty hard to argue that Colonial Williamsburg, to name but one poor but current example, is not populated with self-reliant, self-sufficient folks who work together for the benefit of the community, albeit a commercial endeavor.

An interesting article about a Scottish fishing village which has been robbed of its self-reliance by government fiat.