Yes, quite. The thing they seem to have in common is that they have absolutely no ass whatsoever. The damn things just won't pull a hill at all. I pass them all the time going up mountains in a tractor-trailer.
I guess part of the problem is that people don't know how to drive them. I can get up hills with Dad's anemic minivan a lot better than most because I know when to punch it. Even so, it'll be doing way below the speed limit by the top. The power to weight ratio just sucks royally.
Silvan responds:
On some. On others, like my SIL's Chrysler with a peppy V6, it just blows up the local mountains (around your area, though admittedly he does spend more time running towards Charlottesville) even with a load of kids and their junk. As with most other vehicles, there are engine options, as there were with station wagons.
Charlie Self "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
Ever so often I like to mull this one over. Not that I particularly care (I don't really (OK I do but I'm jaded)) but it gives me something to do between the trips to the drive-up windows. Anyway, it certainly appears that maybe we don't have a whole lot of say anymore. Like for instance,
Let's say I take my hard earned dollars ('Murican money David) and we take it to Jet/Powermatic/Wilton (JetConGlomCo) or Grizzly and we give it/them to the nice man there. He in turn begins a process of giving the dollars to his company and eventually they (the company) splits off a couple few dollars here to stay in 'Murica (warehouse/office admin/other such peoples based on 'Murican soil) , some goes to the corporate side of things (based where ever in the world, I think its a mobile home in Nebraska) and the rest goes to the country of origin where raw materials are paid for, 'lektricuty is paid for and the children who manufacture the 'chinery get their daily bread.
Seems like a sad trek that the dollars take, eh? Then I got to thinking, what of the dollars we spend directly to a 'Murican company. Well, they keep a larger percentage here as one might expect but most 'Murican companies reside in a GlowBall market and, well, some of those good, hard earned dollars get mixed in with the corporate spit and, well, guess what? Uh-huh, you got it Chester. They've gone and wrapped a couple hunnerts up and sent them off to (insert your favorite emerging third world country here) to help pay for their own operations based in that country.
sigh!
I mean, what's a body to do? Then it hit me like a bolt of lightning. Specifically, my mantra, "Buy Used". Think about it. Here we have a place where we can spend our money and not only does it stay in the good old U.S. of A. but it stays right down here on a local level. What more can/could you/we ask for? Well, let's see. You've given the nice man the money and what does he do with it? Yep, he goes to the Pigg-a-la Wigg-a-lee and he buys Pop Tarts and Tang (Made In 'Murica) for the family breakfast table. On the way home he notices he needs gasoline for the auto-mobile so he stops to top off the tank. We all know that money stays here, I mean, we have the oil reserves to last us well into the ends of our lifetimes. While gassing up he notices he needs new tennis shoes so its off to Kohls (they have the best tennis shoe prices) where he drops $40ish on new shoes. But, but, but, but, doesn't that money go off shore? Why yes it does but only a very small percentage. $5 goes to the country of origin to pay for raw materials and manufacture (to pay the children who make our shoes/clothes). $5 goes to the corporate entity who have masterminded this ekonomik scenario. The rest of the money goes to good and tall 'Murican athletes who then in turn use it to stimulate the national ekonomy buy buying Escalades and tennis bracelets.
A'yup, I wish I had a lead on some used machinery right about now so I could contribute to this little machine.
UA100, who keeps his own stimulus package in his pants...
Good idea in theory. Let's say you spark a good idea and all of us stop buying new today. Only used from the local papers so we keep the money in our community.
Most likely, the local Woodworkers Warehouse stores will close. As will the Woodcraft chain. They people at the Grizzly warehouse will be collecting unemployment, standing in line with the guys from Jet, Delta, and a half dozen importers.
With the scarcity of new tools, a used Craftsman direct drive saw was that sold new for $129 will bring $2900 from the widow Jones who is now living a fancy life selling off the deceased hubby's tools. A Unisaw can be bartered for a cottage on the lake. Security systems will be installed on 8" jointers. Damn, my wife will be tempted to hasten my death as she sees the value of my tools out pacing my 401k by 500%.
Ed
Unisaw A100 wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
...
Understand that buying "American" is no different than buying "white", and realize that supporting inefficient producers (American or not) results in shittier, more expensive goods for all of us.
Manny Davis responds:
Really? Damn. Last real production lines I saw, some few years ago, were B&D in Maryland and Makita in SC. Lessee. Also GAF near Baltimore, too. Checking personnel there, I saw probably 40% were colors other than white. Checking company ownership, I'd have to guess, but Makita is part of a Japanese conglomerate, while B&D is owned worldwide, so while U.S. management MAY be "white" (neither you nor I know for sure, though), lots of the owners are particolored. Be durned if I know who owns GAF now, but it is a multinational, so I'd guess ownership is spread widely over various nations and colors.
Let's not add excess bullshit to the baggage this problem already carries, especially in response to a humorous question.
Inefficient production is only a part of the equation. We're looking at factories that can pay their laborers something on the order of 5 bucks a day, or less, with which those laborers live better than almost all the others in their block(s). In the U.S., five bucks won't buy most hamburgers, especially after tax.
There's a leveling taking place, and my guess is that over the next decade or
2, the U.S. and its counterpart nations are not going to be very joyful about jobs. Almost every 15 or 20 buck an hour job that is replaced these days is being replaced with a 6-7 buck an hour job. Eventually that will mean that someone else is going to buy the products these emerging "efficient" producers are making.Charlie Self "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
funny... I turned my natural keyboard over, and "Made in Mexico"
multinational,
It's not quite that simple. A good many of the jobs are not "moving", they're disappearing. Robotics is the main reason for this. I don't think anyone has quite figured out what to do about the looming underemployment problem. (I just heard an advertisiment for a Bernelli (sp?) sewing machine that has a full Microsoft-driven, Intell microprocessor installed in a HOME machine. Install enough micro-power and I might even be able to sew a new shop apron. Stop laughing. It could happen!)
But there is another problem that's just now beginning to appear on the horzion. One of the factors involved with the movement of raw manufacturing into foreign environments, is the extremely cheap transportation costs of moving the completed product(s) back into local markets. Fossil fuels are NOT going to get any cheaper, and if you listen to some, the era of (relatively) cheap energy is drawing to a close for everyone. (I don't quite believe it myself, but some relatively rational people are predicting that the peak oil production has already been reached and *no matter what*, oil production world wide, will very gradually begin to decline.
Right now, labor costs are a prime consideration on manufacturing location. However, if, as I suspect, we begin to see a increase in fuel costs, the pressure to re-locate manufacturing much closer to target markets, is going to become increasingly more of the mix. (None of this will happen overnight, to be sure.) I very much look for a return to 19th Century economics where it might be feasible, even desirable to to centralize around specific transporation (railroads), or maybe a nuclear driven power grid, but the very idea of loading a gigantic container transport, and then using millions of gallons of diseal fuel to move relatively low value commodities across the Pacific just, will become a thing of the past.
The increased energy costs alone are going to drive up the manufacture of most tools. Right now, I can buy a quite acceptable Grizzley (Chinese) cabinet saw for $1000. I assume most of those $1800 Powermatics are made overseas, but let's assume that they're made in New Britain, Connectiucut. It doesn't take much of a jump in trans-Pacific transportation costs for that Powermatic, to become much more attractive. ESPECIALLY if Powermatic would decentralize it's operations and begin manufacturing those Powermatics in three, (or more!) smaller, but still efficient manufacturing centers located around the US.
To be only somewhat facetious, this opera isn't over and the fat lady hasn't even appeared on stage yet.
James....
Yeah, but Dad's anemic, wheezy POS has a V6 too. When he bought the thing, he looked into some kind of aftermarket ignition kit to make it zippier, but we couldn't find five cubic inches of room under the hood anywhere to install it.
I'm probably going to wind up with a minivan some day myself. Pretty practical for a family man, I must say. Haul your kids and dogs, haul your wood. I borrow Dad's van a lot. (I also spend long hours doing graphics for his business for free, so don't cry for my poor Daddy...)
I'm not going to get one until I reach a point in life where I can pay mechanics to do *all* the maintenance though. At only 30-something, I'm still too damn old to be contorting myself into the hideous positions demanded of mechanics working on those damn things.
Hate to tell you but buying beer and scrapping the cans outpaced many
401k's.The solution seems to have already been decided upon: tax the crap out of property owners.
We're just, I believe, beginning to sort out the two-earner household. That, I think has as much to do with this problem of labor as anything else. When the second wage-earner trend began, there was a shortage of people, therefore a higher rate of pay. As we get more and more (don't say they "have" to work, that's far from universal, so far), we have an ample supply, and decreased wages.
Trouble is, factor "x" is playing too - loss of the two-adult household. Two adults in a household at 8 equals more or less one at fifteen in dough, but certainly doesn't support two separate domiciles.
Then there's the other big problem, that we can't support a generous government on income taxes from 8 buck jobs....
If I can avoid buying new I will.
I'll let some goofball pay retail and let them take the hit of decrease of value by simple virtue of taking possession.
I look about the house and see a substantial amount is second hand. Could I buy a new 250 watt RMS stereo for $25? Wife seems to think the cabinet itself was worth the money. So what if I have to walk across the room to turn it on.
Tools? Where would I begin? Three table saws and a 4" joiner for under $300 total. One TS is a Craftsman, the rest are Rockwell's. Took a little cleaning, even paying myself $20 an hour I made out like a bandit. Dedicated Dado table? Is that a big thing? Funny , I was going to set one up for this.
Another thing is, allot of this stuff can't be bought anymore. With the TS/ Joiner I got a tendoner. Big solid rigid cast iron thing. Angle can't be adjusted but that's why the saw blade tilts.
But there are things I won't buy used. My air compressor for instance. I don't trust people to blow down their tanks. A ruptured tank is a bit more excitement than I need. I have a Fluke 83, Damned if I'll trust my life to a used meter. Have I bought used meters? Yes, but the Fluke is the one I use when I have to know for sure.
(Wife's dropping hints about the time, Wife is now SWMBO).
Buy Used! Buy Often! Get more bang for the buck! Put the money in someone's pocket who's going to buy new and take the hit!
snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m05.aol.com:
You misunderstood or I didn't make myself clear (probably the latter).
The mindset that some people have had in the past (do business with only white people) is no different, in principle, than the current, "do business only with Americans".
It doesn't matter what they're willing to work for. Suppose they were willing to work for free. Would Americans be worse off or better off if foreign countries shipped goods over here for free? (forgetting other production costs for the moment)
The people working in those factories are there because that is probably their best option at the moment. Five bucks a day may mean the difference between eating and not eating.
I didn't imply that we "all" not buy new. Just those who have a hankering for keeping their dollars in 'Murica. Judging by what gets discussed here I don't quite have visions of too many people with certain bumper stickers plastered on their (insert truck name here).
I think you'd be surprised. The scenario you lay out would involve a lot of people unable to adapt and as hooman beans we do have that certain God given thinking capacity allotted to survival. I mean, just ''cause we forgot how to hunt down and kill woolly mammoths with our bare hands doesn't mean we'll allow ourselves to go extinct.
Besides, from what I've gleaned from all the goings on, places like Woodcraft would drop machinery in a heart beat, if they could.
Hey man, don't bogart that thing, give the rest of us a poke, won't you?
UA100
sigh...
The force is strong with this one.
UA100, who has seen no depreciation with his 'chinery buys...
bad monkey!
dave
Unisaw A100 wrote:
d hamann notes:
How old is it, and how heavy is it? Mine is one of the originals, made in the U.S., and my wife's is one I can't used it's so light (about 1/3 the weight of this monster). Dunno where it was made, but it's only 2-3 years old, so probably elsewhere.
Charlie Self "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
Not to mention motor vehicles.
Barry
Uh, yeah. Eventually. But back around '73, the parents of the guys and gals making the current predictions swore up and down we'd be totally--not partly, but totally--out of reclaimable oil by the late '80s or early '90s.
Whoops. Sane and rational doesn't add much to predictions, I'm afraid. Nostradamus may have been a nut, and wrong 98% of the time, but that 2% right is about 1000% higher than anyone else's rate.
Charlie Self "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
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