Any tools still made in the USA?

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Greed rules. Those that HAVE, want MORE. Those that don't HAVE, want to present the illusion that they do, lest they be judged unfit. Those that don't HAVE, never will, unless extremely lucky - hard work and dedication just won't do it anymore.
<rant on> Bush is a moron - a greed-monger for the HAVES. For those who are still deluded by whatever 'charm' he exudes, hindsight will reveal him for what he is - a fool, brandishing the flag as the weapon instrumental in undermining the security of the nation and it's economy before masses of short-sighted but adoring sheep. <rant off>
JMHO, Greg
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Steve:
I think you need to wake up about jobs going oversea's. I work selling software and all of my clients are moving their IT staff over to India, China and Phillipines. It is call L-1 Visa's and offshoring. These are $40,000 -100,000+ jobs. Never coming back. Go to Businessweek.com and search on L-1 Visa or outsourcing. You will be suprised that it is also accounting, radiology, engineering, architects, drafting,and on and on.
Rich

you
going
in the

because
scares
to
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On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:25:58 -0500, "RKON"

I'm an unemployed UK IT guy. _My_ job didn't go to India, but I used to write software that was used by people in UK call centres. As their jobs went to India (and they surely are going), there was no longer a need for people like me in the UK.
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
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Andy Dingley wrote:

Once upon a time I was a super-expert (IMHO <g>) on xBASE, especially on combination DOS / UNIX development and implementation. I was the lead on one project that literally took xBASE to its design limits in the call stack. I architected and implemented a data-dictionary based directory crawler that would update database versions overnight. (Extremely necessary when developing systems whilst data entry people were typing in data. <g>)
Then Microsoft released MS Access 1.0 for $99.00. Literally overnight, I saw all my hard-won SET EXCLUSIVE ON skills had gone the way of the horse and buggy.
Adapt or die.
Currently, I'm closer to dying than adapting, but I'm trying... <g>
-- Mark
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:43:21 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
I have no intention of "adapting" to a new skillset. I _invent_ the new skillsets.
A local research lab is currently working on triple stores for RDF (what you use when you realise XML doesn't work). The prototypes they have are still very inefficient and damned slow on large datasets. One day they'll notice that one of the patents I left there three years ago solves a useful piece of this. ( Or maybe the whole company will fold first. )
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
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Andy Dingley wrote:

(100% honest) Best of luck to you!
-- Mark
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:43:21 GMT, "Mark Jerde"

Ha, another fellow victim. I was the resident Clipper programmer at a shop in Atlanta. Wrote xBase Clipper code for a service managment application that was multi-user/workstation with nested gets (!) and tons of assembly UDFs. Thousands of hours of work reduced to worthlessness in less than a year. The only advantage at this point is that it will run on all those old 386s lining the landfills. :-|
Greg
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:43:21 GMT, "Mark Jerde"

And then they had a competitor, Mark...FoxPro...who they quickly bought out.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!
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RKON wrote:

(I lost my computer-related job as part of the .com crash and have yet to make 50% of the income I was making before. I personally feel the pain.)
If indeed we're in a global economy, why isn't this "natural" or even "desireable"? The key is for the workers who lost their jobs to find other ways to add even more value to the entire human species. See the writings of Paul Zane Pilzer for more on this.
I have yet to realize the way in which I can add sufficient value to the human race to derive the income I wish to receive, but believe me, I'm working on it. You can't sit around and wish for things to be as they used to be!
-- Mark
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I too have been to China to visit manufacturing facilities. The workers I have talked to are earning 30 cents an hour. Even if our minimum wage was only $3.00 an hour, they would still be earning only %10 of an American wage earner of minimum wage. So I don't know if the minimum wage is the ONLY reason. Maybe the lack of an OSHA counterpart, and healthcare are contributing.
SteveC1280 wrote:

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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:33:06 GMT, "@sbc(nospam)global.net"

The cost of living is much, much lower in China. It just doesn't cost nearly as much to live there as it does here, that's why they can afford to live on a much lower wage.
Maybe instead of complaining about how little they get paid there, we should be more worried about why it costs so much to live here?
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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:12:30 GMT, Brian Henderson

We just spent 87 billion dollars of our tax dollars on nothing.
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I thought we spent it on plywood?
-Jack
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We do that constantly, thanks to the asshole in the oval office.
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wrote:

The Red Chinese are LOSING manufacturing jobs. They LOST 15,000 last year. In fact, almost EVERYONE worldwide is losing manufacturing jobs. As Robert Reich has pointed out, computerization, and robotization are the culprits.
Consider something.
If a highly robotized factory can produce a widget for a total cost of $100, then it doesn't matter what, a low-tech factory making widgets, too, maybe employing a hundred people CANNOT charge more than a $100. So the total labor costs are effectively capped. The ONLY way to increase an individual's wage, is at the expense of some other worker. Thus, a worker may be making two dollars a day, but they'll probably be making $2 a day twenty years from now.
IF the robotized factory, through some type of innovation, reduces the cost of widgets to $75 each, the low-tech factory again, either reduces cost or closes it doors. It's MUCH harder, using Taylorization techniques, to institute innovations. (Taylor was an "effiency expert", that advanced the idea of lots of people doing one small part, each, of a given manufacturing process. Thus, on the early mass produced cars, there was one guy to screw on the left side of a bumper and one guy to screw on the right side of the bumper. They didn't have to do much, but they didn't have long to do it either.
Dr. Walter Shewhart developed a set of statisical formulas that measured efficiency of entire systems. Thus, incremental increases in efficiency could be demostrated mathematically. Dr. Edward Deming "marketed" those ideas. And in 1953, he began marketing those ideas in post-war Japan. In the 50's and 60's, "made in Japan" mean "cheap" and shoddy. But by the mid-1980's the Japanese car manufacturer's could challenge the Big Three US manufacturers on their own turf. With vehicles that were demonstrably superior in design and manufacture. The SPC (statistical process control) movement was re-introduced into America...and it was a painful process.
I would argue, by the early 90's the US manufacturers were making significant strides, and I seriously doubt there is significant differences in the overall quality of almost any vehicles manufactured worldwide, today. This of course, does include specific innovations introduced by different car makers, from time to time. (BTW, I just got an eMail from someone. They said the Ford Escort was the largest selling vehicle worldwide, for several years. I have no idea if that is true.) It, also, does not preclude a particular manufacturer producing a stinker, from time to time.
James...
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and much higher. Cisco Systems has moved teams of development and software testing to India, HP, MS and American Express all moved call centers there.
minimum wage has nothing to do with offshore jobs, just greed, plain ole Merican greed.
BRuce
Charlie Self wrote:

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<BRuce> wrote in message

Greed is a portion of the equation. Consumers DEMAND low prices. Are you willing to pay a higher price for USA made goods? Put a Brand X saw from USA and one from China side by side. Only difference is the price tag, the US made is $100 more. Make your choice. Just read this newsgroup about tools and see the questions about getting the best deal or lowest price.
Back in the 80's when PCs were hitting the home market, a keyboard made in the US was about $130. Today you can get one made overseas for $10.
At work I just bought 2 containers of material from Korea. I saved the company about $8000. Am I greedy? No, because my competitors are doing the same thing and pricing the final product accordingly, not making greater (if any!) profit from it. If I did not do so, we'd be out of business in six months. Ed
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Ed Pawlowski writes:

Yeah. I've got one of those. I use the Microsoft shaped keyboard. Bought one of the first ones out for a total of just a shade under 100 bucks. When it started getting a little iffy, I went looking and found a similar keyboard...or so I was told. That was about 30 bucks. At this point, I'm using the old keyboard, cleaning it often, even though the keys still stick enough to screw up my typing.
Greed is not a component, nor is a desire to save money on important components. I'd GLADLY pay the same for another keyboard like this one. Even a bit more. Forget it. They no longer exist and probably haven't for several years.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Sir Winston Churchill
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote in

http://www.pckeyboard.com /
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Manny Davis responds:

Unfortunately, they seem to have everything but. What I'm talking about is the Microsoft Natural keyboard, with the two splits in the keys that let your wrists arch more naturally.
Helps reduce my carpal tunnel symptoms...and I've been using it so long, it's a PITA to use a straight keyboard now.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Sir Winston Churchill
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