Any Suggestions....Metal Rulers

[Robatoy]

I suppose a scale could have just one set of ratios, but the ones all over my desk are triangular and have many ratios, in metric and in Imperial.

Taking info off drawings, as I often do, makes it obvious that the scale of drawings have lost a lot of accuracy over the years.

I have backwards traced why some of that happens. In the old days, a drawing was made to scale then copied 1 : 1 in a blue print machine. The scale remained intact. Now, with CAD generated drawings, the relative scale remains intact, but the absolute scale can vary quite a bit depending on the digitized version of the originals. I have a client who has his raster density set for his plotter, and he sends his files to me via e-mail where mine has a HP engine and his a Canon (300 basic DPI and multiples thereof vs 360 DPI) and sure-as-shit, his stuff is always off by 20%. My large format (bigger than C) plotter print shop always asks for a 50cm reference line so that my drawings are at least true to my manual scales. Architects have little problem with things like that, but the rogue "kitchen designer" who has bought a CAD package for a few hundred dollars are not to be trusted when it comes to scale.

And all along I thought that scale was what the union said what I should get paid for doing a gig. :)

[Chris Friesen]

May as well pitch in my $.02.

According to my drafting class (about 10 years back), you measure with a scale and draw lines with a straightedge.

Chris

[alexy]

Pencil works better.

[George E. Cawthon]

Hardly, nonetheless is an old well established adverb, while irregardless is nonstandard. Guess you don't use a dictionary much!

[Ba r r y]

Who ever thought a strip of metal could be such a lightning rod?

[George E. Cawthon]

Trust, there is nothing to trust. A dictionary just catalogs use. Are you saying that new dictionaries "lie" about use?

What is a proper word? you mean a word used properly, an acceptable spelling? Not sure what you mean by a proper word.

How do you define what a word is and is not? Simple, any combination of sounds or letters in written form that coveys some meaning (which means there is some agreement on the meaning by a group of people) is a word. And dictionaries usually define the type of use, e.g., colloquial, slang, regional, rare, standard, substandard, etc.

[George E. Cawthon]

Depends on your associates and associations as you grew up. I use tape measure, but tape rule sounds ok.

You brought up a good point because people here are discussing rule or ruler, and the use is obviously slipping toward ruler, but an even greater slip is from rule or ruler toward measure. In everyday life, for most Americans (BTW that is the appropriate shortening for people who are citizens of the United States of America) rules and rulers are not used for making lines (a basic idea of rule) but for measuring. I would suspect that "measure" will slip into the name of every type of measurement device unless something else is obvious and shorter.

[George E. Cawthon]

Nope, think architects or engineers rule--the three sided kind.

[George E. Cawthon]

Sure you are, doesn't mean you will be right. Toolmakers may well go along with a popular shift in language usage. Look to the practitioners of specific technologies for terminology. Some are a little arcane, but the terms are usually developed to avoid misunderstandings.

For example, people here often describe something using the terms front and rear of a table saw, which no one seems to agree on. Of course not, there is no front and not rear to a table saw, there is, however an infeed and an outfeed that is clear to anyone.

[George E. Cawthon]

Amused wrote: ((snipped))

I started to make a list of answers to your last question but it became too surreal.

For example, teachers are the rulers in school so call the stick of wood a ruler and use it to enforce the rules.

Won't bother to add more.

[Robatoy]

NEVER use a scale to draw a line. ( I have had my knuckles rapped)

[Swingman]

If you don't know what I meant by the word "pedant", look it up, in any dictionary, then check your panties again.

[DanG]

I enjoy the etymology of words and phrases. Many come from the age of sail.

One of my favorites has always been "3 sheets in the wind". The true meaning only comes clear when one knows that sheets are lines that control the angle of a sail. To lose the line over the side, ripped loose by a strong wind and flying proudly out of reach off the side of the ship allowing the sail to whip back and forth creates a strong image. Having 3 sheets flying in the wind and 3 sails out of control . . . ..!!!

(top posted for your convenience) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) [e-mail]

[Amused]

Boy oh, boy.

In some academic circles, that care about that kind of thing, it seems that there is a developing theory that language mutation/migration/development/whatever is accomplished by ... females. Females traditionally, and still, are the primary source of language learning, and in addition, females are still the primary teachers in the lower school grades when most of the language is learned.

Can you see it coming, now?

Most non-technical females probably wouldn't know about a rule/ruler specialized definition, and it wouldn't be until much later in the educational process, when highly trained technical males assume control of the training, maybe even in a post-secondary training, when the distinction would be made. For everyone not in those particular disciplines, there is every likelihood that they would have never be exposed to proper definitions. That would also provide one possible explanation why, in some of the "softer" disciplines, where precision is not so emphasized, that the distinction is not as recognized as in some other disciplines.

BTW, this particular theory is mine, alone, developed from an afternoon reading various language development sites. I wouldn't want to share it in any serious psychological newsgroup for fear of inducing catatonic howls of laughter.

Well, it's a working theory until a better one comes along.

Disconnect... I've been reading a ShopNotes article on using electrolysis to clean rusty steel tools. I have all the necessary equipment, except "washing soda", (NOT detergent!) I have no idea what that is, nor does SWMBO. Tomorrow, I will visit the local store and see if anyone THERE knows what it is.

[John B]

SNIP

Schools are funny things. In Oz they teach the kids to do measurements in centimetres. Very few "real world" uses, with the exception of fabrics and possibly a few others.

All most all trades use millimetres and metres. The Cabinet trade uses Millimetres or "mils". eg, 2400 mil, Building uses metres eg 2.4

Regards John

[Glenn]

Washing soda, aka sodium carbonate. Close relation to baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). A "GOOD" hardware store should have some, and the bloke behind the counter (unless he (or she) is a spotty youth) should know what it is.

[Dale Scroggins]

As I recall, scales have incised lines for units and their divisions. These aid in setting dividers accurately. Drafters, machinists, and aircraft mechanics often use dividers, thus the preference for the term "scale", I suppose. Machinist and mechanic scales always include decimal divisions, but may only measure inches; those used by woodworkers often do not include decimal divisions. Nowadays many do have metric units along with inches (here in the U.S.), but many of my older ones (35+ years) only measure inches. And were called scales when I bought them.

Dale Scroggins

[hylourgos]

"As long as a word communicates it is "real", and only the pedants get their panties twisted."

Knowing the etymology for pedant is more useful than looking up some lexicographer's entry. My panties are still pretty and dry, but at my age I appreciate your interest anyway.

And since you're the one who used the word with negative connotations despite its rather positive etymology, perhaps you ought to tell us why you don't like pedants, or at least why we shouldn't listen to them.

You might also note the tone of my post above, especially as it begins (and which you unwisely and w/o attribution snipped: "Swingman nonetheless and irregardless of sound principle hoists his petard against pedants, and says:"). It was, in other words, meant as a gentle and facetious response to your nonsensical assertion. If you prefer to make this into a serious argument about words and definitions, hey, I'm game.

H.

[Amused]

I received several useful suggestions, but stumbled on a solution, that is awesome.

Shop Notes had an article on using electrolysis to clean steel tools. Sounds crazy, I know, but I tried it this afternoon and it worked amazingly well.

Using a auto battery charger, you immerse the steel tool in a solution of water an sodium carbonate, (a water softener found in cheaper detergents) and BINGO. In an hour or so, the tool is covered in a black soot-like gunk. Rinse and scrub lightly with a scotch brite, and the tool LOOKS BRAND NEW. I've done two rules this afternoon, with tremendous success. The numbers pop out on the shiny *new* surface. (It will not "fill in pits" but they won't have any rust in them, either)

This morning, I "cleaned" an old Craftsman block plane. (You have to remove any wood or brass parts, BTW) Again, it took two hours but the results were most pleasing.

CAUTION: We're talking water and electricity here. If you do something stupid, it's gonna hurt!

This article is very long, but detailed.

[Swingman]

Don't bother ... you've already amply illustrated my original point.