If I might ask Robin, what purpose would that number of saws serve for Lee Valley Tools? I can envision a tablesaw or two for testing purposes and maybe for research purposes when making new products. But, without my thumbing through your catalogue, I don't remember seeing too many wooden or plastic products constructed by LV where a tablesaw might be required.
Think so? Maybe you're just lucky or extra careful or maybe I'm unlucky and careless. I've always considered a small amount of pain as just part of the process. Be it a splinter or sore muscles from hand sanding something or getting a blister on my hand from twisting a screwdriver or whatever. I'd guess it also depends on what kind of woodworking one is doing too. Of the woodworking I do, cabinet making using a veneered plywood is my favourite and that automatically means a few splinters somewhere in the process.
Yes, there is a difference between a canned demo and an exhaustive evaluation, but go look at what the claims are by the manufacturer. Read the FAQ - it clearly states conditions which can overwhelm the capabilities of the device and result in serious injury. It does not claim to address every possible condition. It attempts to deliver incremental gain.
This whole thing was beaten up badly a few months ago in threads on this group. There was a big division between advocates and those with philosophical problems with the whole thing. Most of the issues really came down to a lot of us not caring for the heavy handed approach the patent holders took, in attempt to legislate the use of their product on all saws. There really was not a lot of objection to the concept of the device in principle.
As far as standing in a puddle of water, or grease or anything else - those don't change the electrical capacitance of the human body, which is the electrical principle that the device works under.
Remember - the product does not suggest it can completely eliminate injuries. It attempts to address a common form of injury, and bring a measure of lessened risk. It clearly states that it can be overwhelmed by certain conditions.
The most annoying aspect of the discussions that took place here in the past were the arguments that went off on all sorts of assumptions and false pretenses, and wandered away from the expressed intent of the device.
Whether it's worth the price is up to the individual - for what it's worth, in my opinion, it's not worth what they get for it, all things considered. It is a worthwhile effort to examine and to question manufacturer's claims, but when doing so it's also worthwhile to take a look at what their claims are, and what they are publishing before throwing the questions on the floor.
I was banking on the fact that I've established myself *not* to be one of the safety nazi's and was trying to throw a little light hearted jab your way. I have to admit - I was also thinking more of a little nicked finger here, a little nicked finger there more than I was thinking about a splinter...
Great to hear.. The saw stops just paid for all the eaten blades and trouble to get some filters for one problematic operator!
In my home State of Washington, the Labor and Industries costs of an accident are marked up 35% from what all the costs are, then added to the experience pool of the employeer. If they are lucky the don't go into the next tier, but generally they do after an accident requiring micro-surgeries.
Washington collects EVERY PENNY from you +, their L&I makes money in this State.
Dunno, but the guy who invented the "Second Chance" ballistic vest tested it on himself, on tape. Dramatic footage.
>
Every store has a full woodshop....we make all of our own displays, and prepare course material etc. ...
Then we have woodshops for the R&D guys, and for general corporate use....
Cheers -
Rob
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:22:09 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Chris Friesen quickly quoth:
He does, does he? (Get ready, Darwin.)
Would be interested in hearing details regarding that potential injury. i.e, how serious was the "nick" that a bandage was required? What were the circumstances? etc. It sounds like the saw may have just paid for itself.
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Unless he's reproducing in an unexpected way, the loss of fingers isn't a Darwinistic event.
IT WORKS! Well received the filters from saw stop and Rick can now use the saw with no problems, but Mark proved that the filters don't interferer with the operation of the machine by using his thumb! Seriously we just avoided a serious accident Mark has a bandage on this thumb and is back working (a little shaken) instead of being at the hospital Joe (OP)
Yes, my apologies, I completely forgot about the courses that each store runs. It would be interesting once you get the Sawstops in for some of your woodworkers to write and post their opinion of the machine.
I posted to my original post a few minutes ago, I don't get to post very much I like to read them. Unless I have something worth adding and this morring I did we got a live demo thanks to Mark and his thumb. Joe
--What are these "filters" you're referring to? I've yet to have a cartridge activate so maybe I've got a newer iteration?
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Is that last one there a thinly veiled "Robin's workshop" with lot's of cool tools? :-)
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Wow, sounds like the saw really did save a thumb and some very serious injury.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Plus, I imagine that your insurers who write your policies are going to be thrilled as well :)
Matt
The Robin Lee entity posted thusly:
Aside from "joe", who just posted about a contact incident, yes, there have been a few. I just recently started reading the Wreck, and as soon as I spotted the SawStop threads, checked out their web site. There are a few testimonials and reports of contact incidents, all successful.
Love your store, BTW.
Larry
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