Any reason I shouldn't get a Performax 22-44?

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Other than it's a bit pricey, are there any serious problems with the Performax 22-44 that would make it a bad choice? I'm wanting it primarily to avoid tearout and also to make veneer.
Dave
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That would be my choice.
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Well, I don't have one myself but my father *had* a Performax. Changing the sandpaper on the drum was frustrating for him. He sold it and then got a Woodtek wide belt sander instead...much easier to change sandpaper. He uses it to sand down wood for ukulele making.
Layne

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Honestly I'm not sure, but it was enough of a frustration to make him get rid of it. Frankly I'm of the same ilk. A tool shouldn't be frustrating to use or maintain. Changing a belt seems much simpler than changing a roll of sandpaper that you have to wrap around a drum. The main grip my father had though was that when he attached the cap to secure the sandpaper it would cause the sandpaper to buckle. Again, I don't have one of these so I'm not sure how these things operate. Just trying to relate what my father experienced.

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Layne wrote:

paper on the Performax. It took me about 1 minute (maybe 2) to change grades on the 22-44. The hook tool hooks into a hole on the spring-loaded clamps that previously you had to use your fingers to compress.
I was really impressed with how solidly built the 22-44 is. I've heard Delta has had some serious quality problems with their sanders. In addition, the Performax seem to be the only ones that will adjust down to 1/16", critical if you want to make veneers. Some other clones I considered wouldn't reduce past 1/4".
~Mark.
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I recently got a 16-32, and it also came with "the hook". Handy tool. I can change grits in under a minute. The only trouble I have ever had is when trying to be too aggressive with finer grits.
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Woody wrote:

depth of 1/32". not owning one, I'm not sure if that's achievable...
Dave
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I'm not happy with my performax. It's the open ended model on a tripod. Changing the paper is an art and if not done right can burn a nasty groove into the piece. Height adjustment is not that precise and if the board hesitates the drum can sand a series of grooves into the piece.
I'm looking to upgrade to a unit that uses a belt.
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MrAnderson wrote:

I almost ordered the 22-44 but have decided to hold off after realizing I won't get everything I need for $1,200. There's a chance I'd be much happier with the pricier closed base model (no splayed out legs), and then the tables are $100, sandpaper to get started would be around $200, for a grand total of about $1,700; more than I'd anticipated.
Do you have the 16" wide or the 22"?
Dave
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David wrote:

Couple of points...
1. It is soooooooo easy to make a table. Mine is 2x4s and particle board on casters, interior holds a ton of sanding related stuff...abrasives, belt sanders, orbital sanders, disc sanders, sanding blocks...some pieces of low pile carpet to but on the bench when I am hand sanding...etc.
2. The commercial tables aren't worth having, way too short. Believe me, you will need long infeed/outfeed tables if you ever want to sand anything of any length or weight...try sanding a 10' long X 10" wide piece of 8/4 oak without them. One of the nice things about Performax sanders is that the table is in a fixed position which means you can easily make extension tables.
I have tables (rollers, actually) on each side hinged to the stand. They will extend up to 5+', collapse to a length (about 30") that will fold down and hang at the sides of the stand when not needed. Cost maybe $10 to make both with scrap wood and 6 - 18" lengths of 1 1/2" PVC pipe.
3. If you are going to have a power sander - any sander - it needs abrasive; however you don't need $200 worth to get started.
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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I do occasionally have boards stall under the drum. My drive belt is worn, but I don't think that is the reason. Mostly it seems to be related to having the stuff from the sandpaper cleaning sticks and saw dust on the drive belt. I keep a foxtail handy to brush off most of the tailings. I have also.gotten into the habit of keeping a hand on the board until it is through the sander. This little extra pressure down prevents slipping. I think that the hold down rollers can be adjusted also. Once you get the hang of it, wrapping the paper is easy. When doing shorter pieces, I use a push stick. I make sure that it is thinner than the stock that I am pushing through. The only step up that I can see doing is one like where I take my bigger pieces to: 52 inch wide, 2 sanding belts, and an oscilating head on the end. I took a 36 wide by 84 long by 2 thick hickory top to them to sand. It took 15 minutes and cost $35. Drool!!!!!!!!!!!!!
robo hippy
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David wrote:

Nope. But for veneer - depending on thickness - you may need to make a carrier board to avoid the drum contacting the transport belt. Easy to do, piece of masonite with some strips of sandpaper glued on.
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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I have had one for about 10 years. It is basically a good machine but.... One change that I made, that Performax didn't was to wire the motor for 220. As it was, the sander would bog down way more than I thought it should. My dad (a mechanical engineer) had another model with the same motor, and encountered the same problem. One mistake he made when rewiring, was he wired the whole thing (motor and drive) for 220. The drive motor fried. You will have to add a switch for the motor, and keep the one for the drive. The sander hasn't bogged down even slightly since then no matter how much I try to take off at one time. The newer stands look much nicer. The older models had legs that stuck out a ways both front and back and side ways. For a while I would trip over them, but have learned to avoid them.
I do make 30 or so pieces of furniture a year. When doing panels (table tops and shelves) I will take them and have them comercially done. It is a LOT faster. I do run all of my stretchers and legs through, as this is practical. This isn't really a production machine, but it does a good job. I haven't used any other sander, so I can't compare it.
As far as wrapping the sandpaper around the drum, I never had any problems. That is in part because I had experience of wrapping 1000 plus 1/2 inch by 24 inch dowels with 1 inch leather strips for flower sticks (a juggling toy). robo hippy
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Dave,
I have the 16/32 and it's been great - some minor annoyances but nothing major. The 22/44 as I recall it does have a different arm assembly (better) than the 16/32. The adjustment of the drum - being parallel to the base or carrier you use, will be critical to your application and something you need to check out.
For that kind of money, it would be worth it to me to go to a dealer that has one you can inspect or even try. The Performax doesn't use any Velcro or other backings on it's drum so there won't be any give there. You want a hard surface both on the drum and base. My only real complaint is the height adjuster - and maybe they have fixed that by now. It has enough backlash (~1/8 of a turn) that if you're doing some precision work, this will annoy you to no end. It needs a locking mechanism of some sort or a more positive method of making the drum adjustment. I know that's about as clear as mud but try adjusting the height of the drum and then reverse the adjuster - how much play do you feel?
I've had mine about 3 years now and there have been projects and gnarly wood sanded that just wouldn't have been done any other way without getting a lot of tearout. Keep in mind, this is not a planer. You will need to take many passes to remove lots of wood unless you're using 30 grit paper. It is also not a finish sander. You will see the striations from the sandpaper no matter what grit you use - you will need to use your ROS or scraper for the final finishing.
Good rolls of paper, X-weight, cloth-back, cost around $5 per roll but you can do better by buying bulk. You'll be amazed at how quickly you can ruin a roll of fine grit paper and have burn marks on your stock just because you got a bit aggressive with the adjustment knob. Minimal depth passes with the fine grits and have a good belt cleaner (big gummy like eraser) and you'll get a lot of life out of the rolls. As for installing the rolls, they have a special tool on the 16/32 to get at the clamp assembly that holds the paper in place on mine. No big deal - it works and after the first roll, you'll have it figured out. Not sure the model you're considering uses the same clamp assy or not. And....don't ever fire that thing up without a DC connected to it and turned on... Boy, can you fill a shop full of dust real quick....
All in all - if my 16/32 croaked today - I would get another Performax.
Bob S.

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BobS wrote:

The salesman (a guy I've dealt with before who seems trustworthy and knowledgeable) told me pretty much the same thing about the sandpaper. He said only get the good stuff so it won't sag on the drum. He recommended Klingspor (Sp??). the performax sandpaper is way to pricey. 3 grits would set me back over $215!
Have you used it for flattening bandsawn veneer? Another poster cautioned me to make a sled to prevent the drum from hitting the table at 1/32". I'd heard that before too.
How about bogging down? Any trouble with any grits on full-width cuts? My Dewalt planer is the only tool in my shop that bogs down, although after changing the circuit it's plugged in to, it does better. I guess I was getting some voltage sag on the first one.
The striations issue is one I didn't know about.
Dave
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Dave,
I've purchased mainly Klingspor rolls ( http://www.klingspor.com/ ) from a company in PA (have to find url) and have tried a couple of other brands of lesser quality but were also about half the cost (in bulk). Results were poor, and I wasted a lot of paper due to it heating up, getting clogged and then burning. I tossed it and only have the Klingspor bulk rolls and some of the pre-cut Jet rolls that I bought with the sander.
I have not made veneer per se for a project but yes, I have taken some 12" wide (waste) sections of panels and sanded them down to about 1/16" just to see really how accurate the whole setup was and could I do it. Some trial and tribulations but feed the stock at the fastest feed rate with a very light depth setting. The manual will explain how to test your initial pass. For thin stock, use a carrier made from MDF with some hardwood edges biscuited on along the sides and leading edge that are proud of the 3/4" thick MDF by the amount you want your veneer thickness. When you get down to making the final passes on your veneer, mark pencil lines all along the tops of the hardwood edges on the carrier. As you sand the final passes, the pencil marks will just start to get hit with the sandpaper - indicating you're at the thickness you want. If they're removed equally from the edges, it means you've got an almost perfect alignment. Be consistent in the way you wrap on the paper to the drum and you should have similar results from all your rolls.
The need for the leading edge piece of hardwood is to keep your veneer trapped on the carrier. At the thickness you want for veneer, if you place double-side tape on the carrier to hold the veneer, those will become high spots and telegraph right thru - ruining your veneer. Better to just slightly dampen (mist the carrier) and then lay and press the veneer flat to the carrier. That may not be necessary but I found it helpful when doing other thin pieces using a carrier when I couldn't use tape.
The 22/44 has a sturdier drum arm and although I've never aligned one of those, the 16/32 takes a bit of persistence and a couple of tricks to get it dead-on parallel. Actually though for sanding panels wider than 16", you want the drum a thousandth or two high on the outside so when you turn the panel for the next pass, a ridge is not left down the center of the panel. If you mic'd the thickness from edge of panel to center, it would be a few thou thicker - easily removed during final sanding if you're concerned about it.
As for bogging down - oh yeah. Real fine grit paper and too deep a cut will result in mass destruction of your stock. For door gnarly-grained panels that I've done, I've used 80 grit to plane down to almost final thickness then followed by 120, 150 and 180 grits to take it to a smidgen above final desired thickness. The ROS and 220 and above (depending on the item) are the final sanding steps. As you'll find out, speed is good. Get the stock going under the drum at the highest feed speed and at the lightest depth of cut when using grits above 120. Coarser grits, slower feed speed and you can hog off some real wood quickly. Just remember, those grooves made by 36 grit paper are real deep and it takes a lot of sanding on hardwoods to get them out.
The striations are due to the stock passing under the sandpaper in a straight line and even at the finest grits - they're noticeable and you have to deal with it. Scrape or hand sand - your choice. Now if it was something that was going to be painted, then 180 grit is final sanding followed by primer. The paint has some nice grooves to hook into and are filled by the primer.
You've seen snipe from your planer - expect it on the sander and plan for it. As on the DeWalt planer, feeding the stock in at a slight angle helps minimize snipe and lifting the trailing edge and then the leading edge a smidgen as the stock exits helps too. Same tricks apply for the sander as they do for the planer.
You're gonna curse that "damn sander" the first week and ruin some stock and rolls of sandpaper. As I've said here before, practice and more practice on your technique, learn the machine, get it aligned and plan on wasting about $50 worth of sanding rolls. Plan for it, get over the learning curve and then throw your first real wood at it. After that initial week, you'll not regret it one bit and wonder how you went so long without one.
Can you get a better sander for what you want to do with it - I don't know but hopefully someone here can jump in and tell you they own the 22/44 and they make veneer and.........
Yer welcome,
Bob S.
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"BobS" wrote in message

Thanks ... your post is going in the "Save" folder, while I drool a while longer trying to figure out where to put a 22-44.
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I ended up getting one without the stand and setting it on a table I already had occupying space in the shop (it formerly held a mortice machine and a disk/belt sander).
The are fussy to get the drum parallel to the table, locking down the bolts tends to raise the outboard end of the drum a bit.
scott

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"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

Sad thing is I have the perfect heavy duty machine stand for it, one that was recently given to me, but I had to put it out behind the shop because there is no room for it inside.
That said, I just took delivery on three of those large, outdoor 'deck' storage containers. I might build a platform for them around back, move some of the wood and expendables there, and make some room that way.
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