Any 240v woodworking equipment need a neutral?

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A Lurker wrote:

Nonononoooo. Use spade lugs. Most garden supply stores will sell them. Left tilt, right tilt.. whaddisthis a frickin' pinball? Kidding. The left tilt is better.

You can get around that by getting a frequency converter. Either solid state or an old motor/generator set. With all them cutters, you'll need to get the frequency way up, and as far as I know, only the power supply of a Tupolev jet-liner has an M/G set that will work. They can be had.

DUDE!! Ground the bags... do it now!!! If too many electricals build up in the corner of the bag, and you touch it.. your bag can blow right off!
It could happen....
r --->who thinks that our friends Down Under have to reverse to a right-tilt.
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"Unless stipulations are noted, houses are sold "as is"."
You may so stipulate in the contract, but the law does not allow one to escape liability by making such broad declarations. If you know the wiring is faulty ( an potentially dangerous condition exists and that the fault would not be readily apparent (e.g. is hidden) a good attorney could get you not withstanding your "as-is" declaration.
Of course, if the house were sold as a virtual tear-down - uninhabitable at closing, for instance, your "as-is" declaration would have more effect. But if you sol a home that was apparently fully functional and habitation upon closing was clearly anticipated by the purchaser, you might find the declaration ineffective at court were he family to have been burned alive in an electrical ire resulting for thief use of a defective electrical circuit you installed and did not declare during negotiations.
e.g. you cannot legally hide a dangerous condition and escape liability with a broad declaration. Under USC every product carries an implied warranty of suitability for intended use.
I won a case against General Motors years ago in West Palm Beach based upon the claim that, despite the expiration of the warranty, the defect was created at the point of manufacture and remained hidden for several years (e.g. something no inspection absent a complete dismantle could have found) until the leak materialized and my vehicle no longer kept out the rain.
The case remains in the Public Record. The case also serves the point that the dollar value is most significant in the decision to sue or seek overturning a decision.
GM may well have believed they might prevail in an appeal (as I was unable to afford an attorney) but likely decided the effort was not cost effective.
Had I tried a class action, we might have seen a more vigorous response from the automaker as the potential claim would have risen to millions of dollars in fees alone.
Congress has seen fit to change the laws to make it more difficult for you and I to bring a suit and to limit liability when we do. But, if the stakes are high enough, one can find an attorney willing to take it on and find a reading of that insurance policy or sales contract upon which he might prevail.

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Are either of them a good lawyer? You're not off the hook for negligence -- and knowing that you connected something not according to code might easily constitute negligence.
Leon wrote:

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Can we p l e a s e get a grip here? Wiring a 240V table saw without a neutral conductor is COMPLETELY CODE-COMPLIANT. Nothing wrong with the practice whatsoever. There isn't even any place on a 240V table saw where you can connect the damn neutral wire if you have one! 240V loads DO NOT need a neutral.
[Above applies to North America]
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:57:07 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Stay cool. the OP is a troll. probably somebody's sockpuppet. out having a good time. only way to get rid of them is to not feed them.
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"And... who is liable for damages if there is a house fire? Here it comes...THE INSURANCE COMPANY."
No, the insurance company isn't liable. The ISURED PARTY is liable. The Insurance company has contracted to assume some portion of the damages assessed to the INSURED PARTY after which, the INSURED PARTY is responsible for the difference.
They have simply agreed to reimburse the insured for a portion of claims (after the deductible) and often to assume theresponsibility of taking thecase to court or settling. If you sustain a million dollar judgment plus fees and had a half-million of coverage, you will be responsible for the balance "out of pocket." This because you, the insured, are liable for your acts and omissions.
And, if your insurance company can prove that you did not adhere to the contract for insurance, they can walk away, leaving you responsible for the entire judgment.
Stuff they did not teach in Wood shop, but important none the less.

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Well - you know what they say - you just never know when you might want to hook a clothes dryer up to that cabinet saw...
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Wrecklish - A Guide For The Non-Native Speaker
"'Lecktricity" - Although thought to be in the firm grip of science by most, Wreckers have proven this to be a fecund area of debate and opinion. When soliciting "Advise" about "'Lecktricity", one must always be sure that it is "UL Approved", rather than "URL Approved".
"Planner", "Planar", "Planer" - All of these refer to a machine that is used to thickness and surface lumber. They may be used interchangeably but the local preference is for "Planner". Some would insist that a good "Planner" would make his infeed and outfeed "Planar" with the bed of the "Planer" but these sorts don't last long around here.
"Jointer", "Joiner" - Also terms that can be swapped indiscriminately without fear of reprisal. To those who would say that a "Joiner" can use a "Jointer" but that most "Jointers" lack the intellect to use a "Joiner" properly, most Wreckers would merely say, "Feh!".
"Mantel", "Mantle" - This one is obviously a fielder's choice although the origin is cloaked in mystery. It is said by some that a "Joiner" may wear a "Mantle" whilst building a "Mantel", while one who would wear a "Mantel" might have a Christ Complex, or at least be uncomfortable at parties. Ancient references suggest that Mickey Mantle, while capable of building a Mickey Mantel, could not construct a Mickey Mantle, at least out of wood. Then again
"Advice", "Advise", "Vice", "Vise" - Certainly all victims of the same root structure, these are properly used as follows: "I went to the Wreck to solicit "Advise" about the proper selection of a "Vice" and having been "Adviced" by the cognoscenti, I avoided the "Vise" of misapplication." Sparkling in its clarity, that.
"Board Foot", "Bored Foot" - Whilst one is a unit of measure equal to 144 cubic inches, the other is what happens to a pedestrial appendage that is used as a hold down on the drill press. Which is which is a matter of hot debate.
"Tenon", "Tendon" - While it is entirely proper to say "He severed his "Tendon" while cutting his "Tenon", it is also perfectly fine to say "He severed his "Tenon" while cutting his "Tendon". Don't worry about this one it hardly ever comes up.
"SawStop" - A device which has been proven to make safe the cutting of hotdogs on the tablesaw. The Hotdog, Wurst, Weiner and Kielbasa Cabal is said to be pushing for its required use on all future tablesaws.
"Spontaneous Combustion" - A theory proposed by the those who insist that dust collection piping that is made of plastic will lead inevitably to shop explosions of nearly nuclear force. (cf: parthenogenesis.)
"Norm", "Roy" - Greek gods cloaked in the motley of modern usage. The "Normites" make use of "'Lecktricity" (see below) while the "Royds" eschew all modern devices, save "BandAids", which are specifically included in their rituals and are, in fact, the common sign of the brethren, so that they may know each other at WoodDorking Shows.
I must humbly beseech you to accept my apologies for the incompleteness of this guide and reference. I would hope that Messr. Eisan of Canukistan would enshrine this poor beginning in the Holy FAQ as a living document - to be added to and amended as the members see fit.
I remain, Your Obedient Servant In WoodDorking,
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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That pretty much goes without saying... I think you'd have a pretty tough time buying 10/2, or anything else, withOUT ground, even if you tried. Certainly all of the 14, 12, and 10-ga cables that the home center stores carry have a ground.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

OK, maybe my point was unnecessary. My point was not about the importance of buying the right wire, but hooking up the ground. It's really no different from wiring anything else he might be hooking up. I'm just anal about grounding. And GFCI. And a lot of other things you can get by with for ten thousand times before it kills you on ten thousand and one. I just don't feel nearly as immortal as I once did.
DonkeyHody "I woke up on the right side of the grass again this morning."
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Toller wrote:

Most doesn't need neutral. However, consider a 240V bandsaw with a 120V work-light on it. You could rig this up to run off a single plug, but you would need a neutral. (Basically the same scenario as an electric kitchen stove.)
That said, it would probably be cheaper to run 10/2 and 14/2 and provide two receptacles rather than running 10/3.
Chris
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Or, cheaper yet, buy a 240-volt bulb. That's what my bandsaw has, but I've never replaced it--are they hard to find?

--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

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alexy wrote:

Yep, probably that's the best bet for a task light. I have no idea how hard they are to get...but they don't show up at my favorite tool store or at Home Depot.
Might have to go to a lighting supplier.
Chris
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Why not simply re-wire the bulb socket to attach one side to the neutral and run a 120VAC bulb?
Better than cursing the darkness, no?
wrote:

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Nope, not at all. Go price the wire.
One should always run the most robust line one can afford and that can carry the intended load and a bit more.
And one should always consider safety and follow Electrical Codes to the letter.

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Toller wrote:

You can use 10/2... on most breaker boxes, the ground and white wire are connected to the same bus anyhow.. You only need 10/3 for something like a 4 prong dryer plug.
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bf wrote:

The safety ground is there for a reason...you really don't want to be running current through it on a normal basis, especially when it may be connected to the metal equipment body.
As mentioned earlier, if the 240V equipment has any 120V accessories on it, then you need 3-conductor wire and a 4-prong plug. (Or two separate plugs.)
Chris
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You are confusing physical and electrical "You only need 10/3 for something like a 4 prong dryer plug. " and practice with CODE.
The "GROUND (bare copper) is the mechanical ground. The White, neutral is the Electrical ground.
Remember, every electrical appliance or tool you purchase is designed and built upon the assumption that it will be powered up in an APPROVED MANNER that meets the Standard Electrical Code.
If you "fix" your wiring to do otherwise, none of the safety measures designed into the product may save your home or ass as intended.
And the manufacturer escapes all liability an your insurance is voided and your liability is (neighbor's house catches fire) is 100%.
For this you want to save $23.00?

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I give up, what is a mechanical ground, as opposed to an electrical ground? And, since 240v machines only have three wires, what do you do with the extra wire in the supply?
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A troll sir, meant to confuse.
A nuetral is a grounded conductor, required on that drier because it has 120V circuits within it.
A ground is a grounding conductor, only used as a path back to ground from any conducting point on your appliance, tool, etc. in the event you have an electrical fault. It provides a path that, I'm sure you will agree, is a better path to ground than through your carcass.
Frank
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