Another Planer Question

I've been looking for a 15" planer for a long time.
There's a used Grizzly 1021 available, locally, for about $500.... I haven't inspected it, yet. I will definitely be planing 12" - 15" boards. Did a search for reviews: Seems the consensus about this planer is that the 2 hp motor is too weak for moderate/frequent use on wide boards.
I've almost convinced myself to get a new G0453 or comparable, instead of continuing to look for an adequatly powered used planer. Listings for the G0453 seem to indicate the blades (~$50) and the blade setter (~$100) don't come with the machine... have to purchase them separately, or am I wrong?
Is 2 hp too weak for planing wide boards?
Is there a better 15" planer, $1200 and under, than the G0453?
Sonny
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On 4/12/2010 8:32 PM, Sonny wrote:

The G0453 comes with knives installed and already adjusted, and the knife adjustment gauge is also included with the machine.

That's a big "it depends", but in all likelihood: Yes. "2HP" isn't very meaningful without the specifications such as amperage, motor RPM, cutterhead RPM, feed rate, etc., but in general I'd say that if you truly need 15" capacity you should be looking at 220V machines with 3HP induction motors like the G0453.

If there is I didn't find one. It's built like a tank and has power to spare.
--
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My dad has a precursor to the G0453 (no recollection of the model number) -- undermounted 3HP motor, stationary planer, two speed mechanical feed, straight blades with no fancy helical carbide inserts. 3HP will take a pretty decent swipe a 13" board (about the widest I've ever put through it). But 10-12" hard maple makes it grunt even on a fairly light pass with relatively fresh blades. It's wicked noisy. I'd have to get a heck of a deal before going down to 2 HP.
One thing that you might do is keep an eye out for an old Woodmaster or Foley-Belsaw planer molder -- I picked up a 12" FB with 5HP motor for about $250 a couple of years ago on CL. I figured it was a no- brainer and I could probably part it out if I missed something when I looked it over or even if I had to dump a couple hundred into new feed rollers etc I'd come out ok. I have only ever used the FB as a planer and have never cut molding with it. It has been a decent planer for the 1500 to 2000 sf of red and white oak I've put through it. I've never pushed it to the point of abuse, but it's never bogged down cleaning up 11" wide white oak glue ups or running two 5" boards side by side. I inherited my late brother's 5HP 12" Woodmaster which I use for molding, gang rip, and as a drum sander -- but I've never planed with it. Big moldings knives will make it sweat, as will aggressive sanding. FB has a one speed chain and sprocket feed; the Woodmaster has continuously variable speed feed. All that being said, how important is 15" compared to 12" -- even if you have 15" stock will you really be finishing it whole or ripping it down? The only big advantage I find for wider blades is that you can go a little longer between changes by using different sections of the cutters. Sharpening is wash since my local guy charges by length.
hex -30-
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I have an older version of about the same planer that you found available locally. It is also a 2hp model, made in Taiwan, I think. I use it only occasionally and have planed 12 inch boards, max. But I have had it for over 20 years, so I have some experience with the breed. One one hand, it works for me. I plane mostly hard woods, like maple, and oak. I'd say it all depends on how much you are going to use it and how much cranking it up and down you want to do to get a light enough cut on the wider boards.
But, here's another thought: If the money is really important, why not consider getting that planer and then upgrading to a 3 hp motor? My planer came either way. The instructions tell me that they added a little 1/16" inch shim to prevent the used form taking too deep a cut with the 2 hp model, so upgrading shouldn't be an issue. Also, mine came wired for 120 volts even though the motor can go either 120 or 240. I am just too lazy to rewire to 240, but I am sure that would give me more ummph. You would probably have to upgrade the starter, too, but I think HF and maybe Grizzly or someone like that has reasonably priced stuff.
May biggest concern, (if that planer is like mine): -Make sure that the power feed knob is all the way out (there's a detent). I didn't pay attention that once and it allowed the drive gears to be in partial mesh. Since those gears aren't hardened, they got chewed up a little bit then they wouldn't engage. I tore down the drive assy, cleaned up the gears, etc. and reassembled it. That was about 5 years ago and it has been working fine ever since.
Pete Stanaitis ---------------
Sonny wrote:

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spaco wrote: ...

...
NO!!! Big (but widespread) misconception here...
Only if your wiring is too small for the 120V amperage and you have significant voltage drop. The supply voltage doesn't make any difference on a dual-voltage motor as to the power; it merely reduces the current draw.
--
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"dpb" wrote:

------------------------------------------ Sorry but it DOES make a difference.
The total power consumed consists of the power consumed my the motor + the power consumed by the conductors feeding the motor.
The power consumed by the conductors = I^2R.
Thus for a given set of conductors, the resistance is fixed while the power loss of the conductors is proportional to current^2.
Reduce the current by 1/2, you reduce the conductor losses by 4, thus making more power available at the motor terminals.
Doubling the voltage at the motor terminals has multiple benefits.
Lew
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Lew,
You are absolutely correct, but it is irrelevant.
Assuming 12 gauge wire, the resistance is 1.619 ohm per 1,000 foot. (http://www.interfacebus.com/Copper_Wire_AWG_SIze.html ) Assuming a 50 foot run, the resistance of the wire will be .08095 ohm. Assuming the 120v motor draws 15 amps, the power draw (P=IE) will be 120 x 15 = 1,800watts. At 240 volts the power draw will be 240 x 7.5 = 1,800 watts.
The power loss on the 120v circuit will be (I^2R) 15*15*.08095 = 18.21375 watts or 1% of total. The power loss on the 240v circuit will be (I^2R) 7.5*7.5*.08095 = 4.55344 watts or .25% of total
The difference between using 120v vs 240v is 18.21375-4.55344 = 13.66031 watts or .7589%
So you are absolutely right that there will be more power loss by using 120v vs 240v but a 1,800 watt motor is not going to notice a reduction in power of three quarters of 1 percent of a watt. The user certainly will not notice a difference. Especially when you consider the tolerances of the motors and power delivery and wire resistances and lengths will all probably add up to way more than 3/4%.
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"Ron S" wrote:
Lew,
You are absolutely correct, but it is irrelevant.
<snip the steady state math>
Inrush.
Think dimming lights.
Lew
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On 04/13/2010 01:48 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Hypothetically, if we propose an inrush of 10x steady state (which should be higher than the actual inrush--how long will a 15A breaker let you draw 150A before it pops?) then the conductor losses in the supply conductors drops from about 10% of the overall current draw to about 2.5% of the overall current draw. This would make 7.5% more power available at the motor terminals. This isn't significant in my books.
In the real world, the actual difference will be less than that.
Arguably the most significant difference is that the load is spread evenly over both legs so the lights on one leg don't dim due to the sudden load.
Chris
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Chris Friesen wrote: <snip>

... not to mention the damage it can cause to sensitive electronic equipment that don't like "brown outs".
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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"Chris Friesen" wrote:

<snip> ------------------------------------------ Locked rotor inrush is in the (10-12)*(FLA) neighborhood for either a single or three phase motor, thus 150A inrush would be an expected minimum.
Chances of getting a 1HP/120V/1PH motor started on a 1P-15A c'bkr are slim and none.
The dynamics of motor inrush current are such that you need a big pipe for a short period of time, thus trying to monkey fuck around with small conductors (#12AWG & #14AWG) as well as peanut c'bkrs is a total waste of time.
Just for funzies, try ripping some 8/4 hard maple on a T/S equipped with a 1HP or 1-1/2HP motor wired for 120VAC service and get back to me.
Lew
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:22:30 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

I've done it no problem with my 24T thin kerf.
-Kevin
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Wiring for 220 also helps to keep half of the house lights from dimming when the motor starts up.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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snip
LOL,,, if half the lights in your house dim when you start a 110 volt 2 hp motor you have other problems. I can see understand some diming on the same circuit but the whole half diming should not happen.
Last November I started up my cabinet saw... it stalled and I lost half the electricy service in my home. That turned out to be a big problem, one of the under ground leads coming up to the meter shorted out.
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Well... if you don't mind used, it looks like you could easily get a 15" Powermatic with 5hp motor for less than $1200. I took a quick look on Exfactory but ebay and craigs might give up some gold also. My 1960's PMs are still working fine so you shou;d be OK
http://www.exfactory.com/equipment.aspx?catId=PL&pos 38&Sort=spnetprice
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