Yeh, I know about figure eight fasteners; but I am perfectly serious about this question. If the grain runs the same as the top on all 4 sides (and all the wood is butternut, bought at the same time, and stored together for several weeks); what is going to move? It is no different than a glued up board, or any other matched grain joint, is it?
If I am missing something, I would sincerely appreciate having it pointed out. I probably won't glue because it will be messy and I don't think it is necessary, but I can't see why it would hurt.
We seem to be chasing our tail here ... If you say so.
There is not enough detail in the picture to tell the grain direction on what are generally the tables "aprons" upon which the table top rests. What appears to be an "apron" in the photo may indeed be a solid piece of wood spanning the structure under the table top. (Indeed, I hope that is the case if you are planning on glue as your method of table top fastening.)
The problem with giving any satisfactory advice, besides inadequate detail in the photos and confusing descriptions, is that your table appears to not use generally accepted table construction methods.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, had you used more conventional, and time tested, table construction methods, there would be no question about what would work and what wouldn't ... but I am sure that you are aware of that.
At this point, it you feel you have the wood movement issue whipped, just do what you think will work based on your research ... and time will be the final judge.
In any event, good luck in finishing your project ... I do like the look of the piece and hope it works out for you.
Yes, that is the famous support that I was asking about at the very beginning of the thread. It is a cross grain walnut support I put in after deciding the parallel grain butternut support was inadequate. Someone pointed out correctly that I was confused and even at 12", a crossgrain support was not safe. So I backed out the screws attaching it, to accomodate a little movement. Then the thread started getting bizarre. It is the only crossgrain element in the entire table. According to my charts, the movement between the butternut shelf and the walnut support will be no more than 1/16" over 12". So slightly loose screws ought to be enough to handle that. Or so I believe.
I think I have figured out the communications problem. No matter how many times I say that the side panel is solid butternut with the grain running the same direction as the top, people see it as a crossgrain problem because aprons normally have grain running the opposite direction.
Bookcases always have side with vertical grain, and that is how I built this; rather than like a table. It may be unconventional, but if it works for bookcases, why wouldn't it work for this? The front has some cross grain to the sides, but since since nothing is wider than 1", that can't matter; and the back will be plywood.
Nope ... didn't even worry about that in my replies. My points, IIRC, were limited to supporting the shelf, any cross-grain situation at that point considering the wide shelf, and attaching the top.
you're right about the relative movement in this piece. where the shelf sits on it's supports is the only significant long grain to end grain joint. it's easily dealt with by loosely fastening the shelf down and providing room at the legs for movement.
it's not how I'd build the piece, but it should work.
bookcases tend to get moved around less than tables. if this one gets a lot of front to back racking forces it may have a tendency to split the side panels.
"toller" wrote in news:A3GId.1505$ snipped-for-privacy@news02.roc.ny:
I've learned not to predict how things will actually get used. Well built, furniture lasts for many decades. Unless it is too ugly to bear looking at, it will be passed around to family, friends, neighbors, folks who pick stuff up on the curb on trash day, etc.
Build it to last, or you might as well go to Ikea.
Sorry for the rant. I feel better now. Didn't mean to rain on your parade, either. Folks have been pretty helpful in trying to explain & understand what you're trying to do here. That isn't the easiest thing to do in a text group. And it's how understanding is passed on. That's a very good thing.
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