Another day like yesterday and I 'll sell all my equipment!

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SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want it to have sides that slope outward at 12 degrees.
FIRST ATTEMPT: ROUTER TABLE - DOVETAILS First I tried my router table to make dovetails. I cut the ends at 12 degrees first and cut the tails. So far so good. The I cut the pins but they were cut at the wrong angle. So I recut them but the DT don't fit together, even if I pare the triangles as indicated in the Incra through dovetail instructions.
SECOND ATTEMPT: BAND SAW BOX JOINTS So I tried box joints on the band saw by tilting the table to 12 degrees. To make a long story short, I didn't appreciate the results...
THIRD ATTEMPT: MITERS By trial and error I came "close" to a workable miter joint but I don't like the look of miter joints and cringe at the thought of securing it correctly during glue up, as the joint is sloped 12 degrees. I tried a number zero biscuit which holds the corner in alignment but how do I put pressure on the joint?
Finally, a question: can anyone point me to a book or net source that describes (I need pictures) how to make a box with sloping sides with a joint other than a miter?
(Maybe I'm not really cut out for woodworking...)
oh, and please don't suggest a multi router. :)
bummed, dave
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BAD wrote:>SIGH... all I wanted to make yesterday is an inbox for my desk. I want

Keep trying. The trial and error method that worked on your mitre joint should prevail. I saw a good program on the coming earthquake for your area. Tom Someday, it'll all be over....
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Tom,
we ALWAYS have an earthquake coming... <g> beats driving in the snow during the winter months, I'll tell you (or minus 15 degrees). (Of course some parts of CA get snow, but not where I live or visit).
Wonder if angled dovetails are just beyond at this point?
dave
Tom wrote:

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In typed:

Check out this PDF.
http://www.gifkins.com.au/instructionsB.pdf
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In typed:

Here's another using the Leigh jig but I'm sure it could be adapted if you're using something else.
http://leighjigs.com/data/leighadt.pdf
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Bay Area Dave wrote:

snip

Lock Miter router bit, precision positionable fence with zero clearance insert and a couple of jigs to hold the parts while you route them?
BTW - you in the SF Bay Area - I'm in San Jose. If you're close enough you can try it - on a JoinTech rather than an Incra. Bring cut scraps of the stock you're using so the set up works for them. Can make an MDF "template" for the two cuts so future set up - with the same lock miter bit becomes a no brainer.
charlie b
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Bay Area Dave wrote:

Why not ask David Eisan. I saw him doing joinery seminars at a woodshow. I liked when he would post progress pictures of current projects. Explaining how he decided on things and why. Rather than just a, "I'm finished" picture. What happened to them?
J
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Good! May you walk out of the shop today feeling like Sam Maloof! ... (just put a little curve on the edge and rub in some Blo/Tung/Poly)
I love it when that happnes. <g>
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04
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<snippage of a report of a tough day>
I'm sorry, Dave. I guess you were the karmic balance for the day I enjoyed in my shop yesterday.
An older friend came by, to 'help' me with a project for his house. When he was younger, and healthier, he could woodwork rings around my current skill level, which has increased over the last couple of years. But he's getting older, and has some fairly severe limitations on how much he can do, and yet there is this project which must get done soon, and be done well. See, his mother, in her late '80s, is needing to move in with them.
So I spent pretty much the whole day in my shop with, and for, him, doing a project that has to be done soon. Wore me out physically, but shored me up emotionally. He watched and visited, consulted and told stories.
Planes and thickness planers, table and miter saws, mortises and tenons, glue and clamps. Working out the plan as we go along. Simple work, but really sturdy.
There are maybe 10 of my other projects in various states of completion, and two new tools still in their Delta boxes, but nothing more important needed doing yesterday.
It was a good day in the shop. Sorry if you were the balance in the universe. ;-)
Seriously, all of this, (and all of life, if you want to get philosophical), is a learning experience, and we are a work in progress. I've sent three big boxes of scrap to my father's firewood stack since Christmas. If only it was that easy to be rid of mistakes in other modes of life....
Take another whack at it Dave! I've seen angled sided in-boxes. They can be made in a home shop.
Patriarch
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patriarch,
thanks for the words. I'd like to see my dad take up a bit of woodworking so we can pass some time together in my shop "doing" instead of me just showing him what I've done. He's done tons of handyman stuff on his house like hardwood floors, tile shower and counter, decks, that sort of thing. The only pieces of WW equipment he has is a Crapsman TS and a Delta 10" miter and neither of them comes out from under wraps much.
I'm sure the satisfaction of helping a friend FAR outweighed the temporary thrill of unpacking a new tool! We should all be so blessed to have someone who cares and who puts that caring into action.
I'm sure the angled sides boxes CAN be made in a home shop; the question is can they be made in MINE! :)
Charlie offered to help me with this but I hate to take up his time...
dave
patriarch wrote:

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Just be thankful that you can at least show your dad your projects. Many of us don't have that opportunity. You always get to define what success means to you in whatever you do. Success can be doing woodworking with your dad or success can be spending time with your dad, your call. Success can be finishing an in-basket with sloped sides or success can be spending relaxing time in your shop, again your call.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Bay Area Dave" < snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com> wrote in message
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There is no doubt I've been blessed with the time with family and friends, particularly in a stressfull 2003.
My shop time has been truly sawdust therapy. When my cell phone would ring while spending time in a woodworking class, those I couldn't ignore often were told that I'd return their call after I got done with my "meeting".
It was enlightening to observe how my productivity and creativity in my paid profession increased, as I spent more mental energy solving woodworking problems, and less time beating my head against the wall, whilst other divisions struggled to solve challenges half a world away.
And my family says I'm easier to be with, too.
On the sloped, mitered sides challenge, consider using glue blocks attached with hot melt glue. This tip courtesy of the jewlery box guru at Diablo Woodworkers, in Pleasant Hill, CA, Jeff Trager. I think there was something in one of the publications I read recently as well.
Patriarch
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hi dave. how bout miter joints and after glue up go back to the router table and cut keyways in the joints and make some keys out of another species of wood for contrast? makes a good looking and very strong box. skeez
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Skeez,
I did think about the contrasting keys as I was fooling around with the mitered joints, but the whole mitered look leaves me cold. Plus I'm unable to think of way to clamp them. Not saying it's impossible, but just can't envision it. A strap won't work due the 12 degree angle. I've thought that maybe I could use carpet tape to stick some wedges on near the joint to provide a perpendicular surface to clamp...
Man, this is should be a relatively simple project! What's gonna happen when I get to the china cabinet??
dave
snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

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Dave,
Hate to tell you but I was working on some small boxes/drawers for a hanging tool case. Not double angled boxes, but the front or side was angled and I cut dove tails by hand. Not that hard. Fronts for these drawers where cherry and they where 1/2 blind (not the easiest to cut by hand.) Took a little longer, but now I know that I can handle the angled dovetails without a problem.
Think about doing it by hand. Not much longer than with a machine if you have to do all of this setup.
My 0.02 Ron
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Dave,
FWW had an article on hot glue applications and one of them was gluing wedges on angled glue ups to get parallel surfaces. I've messed with double sided tape before and I don't like it all that much (sometimes it slips -- crappy when you're template routing) and have wondered what hot glue would be like. I have no experience, so just "words" of advice, not actual "I did this and it worked".
Mike
wrote:

results...
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Works great and is not nearly as prone to slipping as double sided tape
Have almost stopped using doublesided tape and instead reach for the hotmelt glue gun anymore for temp fastening while working
John

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Sweet!! Template routing sure beats using my drum sander (precision and speed) and it's always great to hear when someone's actually tried it and it works. Thanks John!

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LOL welcome to the WWOWW [wonderfull world of wood working] as far as clamping you can hot glue or nail or screw blocks to the bench and use wedges to clamp the wide part of the box then cut a hole in some MDF of scrap plywood a little larger than the small part of your box. place the cutout over the project and clamp it down evenly to pull the joints together. hope all this makes sense to you. i can see it in my head!!! lol..... you will be placing the box top down on the bench if that helps. if you set up a jig to do the keyways you can make it look as if you used dovetails or box joints. i saw some pics of this some place but im not sure where. ahhhh the memory is the first thing to go!!! :-] skeez
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as far as the sloped side all you need is a miter box. set up some stop blocks on the miter saw as you would for crown molding. whatever angle you want will work. you set it up so the wood sits at an angle and only have to cut 45's just as you would cut crown on a standard miter saw. this saves all the figuring of angles. i have a compound miter saw BUT i almost never set it on a bevel. instead i use one of my standard miter saws. the compound saw collects dust most of the time. its not that i cant figure out the angles its mostly because its easier to do it the old fasioned way for me. skeez
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