Adjusting Table Saw Trunion

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The Arbor and bearing is a single part number. And I assume a single part. I'm going to try to dissassemble it this weekend.
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On 18 Feb 2005 01:58:10 GMT, Bruce Barnett

I betcha if you take it to a machine shop they can press it apart in about 2 minutes.
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snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote:

That's what I was going to suggest after looking at the drawing again...
May need to take the motor bell housing as well as it appears the shaft is pressed into it as well as near as I can tell...
Overall, looks like it should be easy enough as long as the bearings aren't too exotic...but even there, undoubtedly the machine shop could fix that if mandatory.
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I may have do. I wasn't able to remove it from the housing.
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Not surprised...that's probably "the part" :(
What shape are the bearings in? If they're not turning on the shaft, you should probably be ok.
Good luck, let us know how it comes out...
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When I turn them by hand with nothing on the arbor, they seem okay. But when I attach a blade and turn them (disconnecting the belt) there is a rattling noise.
When the motor is attached, and on, the noise is really loud and ragged. It no longer whines. It growls.
Anyhow - I'm considering a new saw. Perhaps someone near Albany NY wants the old Rockwell/Delta 34-300 for parts, or willing to try to fix it. It has a nice cast iron table w/extensions, and the rip fence has two clamps front and back. Best offer gets it at the end of the week, and I will gladly accept "free and you haul it away" as a valid offer.
SWMBO says I can't have two table saws. While another glue-up surface is nice, space is a big issue in the cellar of my 150-year-old farmhouse.
The old one was $200 used, and lasted 20 years with occasional use. It's been a good friend...
I have one story for the eulogy. We have a wet basement, and the sump pump was working overtime on the spring thaw. At the time I have the hose going out the window, but by contracting and expanding all the time, the hose wore a hole, which leaked, and the basement was filling up.
Well, I come downstairs to discover the inches of ice water. But the worst part was the hose has twisted, and a stream of water was arching in the air 6 feet. I slowly traced the arc of water with horror, where - you guessed it - it landed right in the middle of the cast iron surface of my table saw. The water has been hitting the surface for hours. I said many many MANY bad words.
Anyhow - I stripped the table apart and cleaned it up real nice. But that was years ago.
Dang. I lost a pet cat last month, and I had to put him down. And now is time for the saw. Do they have Hallmark cards for putting down power tools? They should.
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Bruce Barnett wrote: ...

Before you actually put it down (unless, of course, it's the reason you've been hoping for :) ), I'd at least get a machine/bearing shop to evaluate it for what it would cost to press a new bearing.
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Hey an extra, nice flat top is always useful for glue ups. Perhaps it could be converted into one of those homemade drum sanders others have been posting about recently. Router table?
When life gives you lemons....
Rob
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No folks that is definately not
EL Guapo!!!!
I'm sorry but it's true.

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Shopnotes #25, January 1996 is the best article I've seen. Pictures, even.
In addition, Preston Andreas contributed his experience on February 12, 2001 to this forum.
Just remember - don't smack cast iron with anything tougher'n wood!
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It's been posted a number of times but the very procedure Bob S. references, is available at the Delta web site:
http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e 4&pF2
As a follow up, I would strongly suggest another valuable addition to anything else you get... Look at a In-line Industries "PALS" system that is an addition to the saw...
Here is an excellent write up of "how to do it" and it includes a good desciption of the PALS system...
http://thewoodshop.20m.com/calibrate_sled1.htm
and
http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html
Take my word for it.... SPEND THE MONEY and get the correct tools(PALS & TS-ALigner)... Been there.. done that including breaking a bolt in the arbor assemble.
Thomas wrote:

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The PALS do not fix the problem - the allow you to force an adjustment. There's a reason you can't align it - fix that first.
Bob S.

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You lost me there Bob...
If you follow Delta's instructions AND use the PALS, which makes the final adjustment MUCH easier.
I have used the Delta instructions and they will "work" eventually, but it's much more difficult by NOT using the PALS "doo-hickey"...
What is the "fix" for "can't align it" ????
BobS wrote:

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Pat,
The reason the PALS were born is to "hold" one side of a trunnion in-place while the other side is being adjusted. Yes - they do help make things easier but they also allow the undercarriage to be slightly warped when forcing the adjustments. The tie-bars need to be parallel. I have yet to see an alignment done with PALS that did not force the tie-bars out of alignment. The blade may be parallel with the miter slot (assuming it was aligned while at 90) but most likely will not be when at some bevel setting other than 90. A good test is to make about a 15 bevel cut at max depth thru a piece of hardwood and see if you get any burning. A properly aligned saw with a good blade will not burn.
With the tie-bars adjusted for parallel and with the lands and trunnions flat and all at the same height there is no need to "warp, twist, bend or otherwise distort" the undercarriage into alignment. If you have the PALS - go check the tie-bars for being parallel. If a flat plate does not lay flat across them as per the instructions - then something is still out of alignment.
If you can't get an alignment done without the use of force or by using PALS - does it not make sense that something is not right and should be fixed? It is not a big job to flip that saw over and to remove the undercarriage in order to make some measurements and tweak as needed so the saw will align without force.
I'm sure we have all seen the numerous posts about getting a CS aligned and all read the "Get a bigger hammer" or "Get a set of PALS" replies. Why not fix the problem the right way the first time and not have to go thru all the hassle time and again. The tablesaws don't come from Delta in perfect alignment and there's a lot of slop in the way they were built. With a bit of tweaking you can fix what they didn't do at the factory.
Bob S.

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Read this for a better explanation about tie-bars being parallel. While this is about a Unisaw, it's applicable to the "why" behind the alignment.
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=powertools&file=articles_111.shtml
Bob S.
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I agree with you up to a point... Following the Delta instructions to the letter(which I do/did) does allow you to "get it straight", but I also think that the ideas behind the PALS is still a good way to make the "final" setting.
You know yourself that when you get the tie bars correct and begin the process of getting everthing back to "tight", that a slight move of the nut and everything is "out of whack" again. I don't quite believe that the PALS screws can exert enough pressure on the trunnion assembly to "distort" it.
Many people a lot smarter than me have stated on a number of occasions in articles that it is "almost" impossible to get and keep a contractor in perfect alignment. The design doesn't lend itself to mechanical perfection in adjustment.
But that's just me...
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Pat,
Try adjusting the tie-bars with the trunnion bolts just snugged up to hold things in-place, then after they're tight - now align the undercarriage to make the blade parallel with the miter slot.
Have you checked your tie-bars to see if they are parallel and a flat plate does not wobble when pressure is applied on one side then the other?
Bob S.

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I think Bob's point, and one that I endorse is that the PALS mask the problem and don't necessarily offer an elegant solution to the real problem. The underlying problem is that the surfaces that the bolt heads engage on the trunion is not machined and irregularities in it is what causes the slight shift as you tighten down the bolt. It is better to file the trunion down a bit to flatten out that seat than it is to force it in any way. It only takes a very minor amount of work to properly fix the issue instead of working around it. Probably no more work than installing the PALS in the first place.

I'd disagree with this conclusion completely. No one says it's nearly impossible to get and keep a contractor's saw in alignment. We do say that it takes a certain dedication to performing the task properly the first time and not settling for "close enough", but it is typically characterized as a very do-able job. Most here have done it to their saws and encourage others to do it on a regular basis. Likewise, no one says that it is impossible or even nearly impossible to keep a contractor's saw in tune. To the contrary, if done properly the first time it is unlikely you will have to make those adjustments again for a very, very long time. That's more reason to fix the underlying issues with a given saw and not jump to things like PALS. Once you get your trunions lined up and locked down there is no reason to expect them to move under normal use. The design certainly does lend itself to near perfect alignment. Most of us here have our saws - both cabinet saws and contractor saws, aligned to less than .005in. Many of us have them aligned to .001in. This is very achievable.
Don't let what is really a fairly easy task overwhelm you. You can get your saw aligned properly and it really won't take you a lot of work. You'll be hugely rewarded for your efforts the first time you fire it up and cut something and that reward will stay with you for a long time.

Nah - we all felt that way before we dug in and did it on our saws. After we did we miraculously became pinnacles of wisdom and oracles of encouragement.
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Ahhhh. the other side benefit of getting your CS aligned...
Mike Marlow wrote: Nah - we all felt that way before we dug in and did it on our saws. After we did we miraculously became pinnacles of wisdom and oracles of encouragement.
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NOV'03 Issue of Magazine uses a Delta Contractor saw in their article and gives photo of adjusting to get balde and miter slot parallel. Under photo it gives this procedure:
"In most cases, each of the two trunnions on a contractor's tablesaw is held in place w/ two bolts. Working thru the back side of the saw, loosen both of the bolts on the rear trunnion, and one bolt on the front trunnion. Leave the fourth bolt snug to serve as a pivot point. Place a piece of scrap (wood) against the rear trunnion, and tap it w/ a mallet. Recheck the blade/table alignment. If it is good, tighten the rear trunnion bolt that's diagonal from the pivot bolt. If the alignment is still good, tighten the remaining bolts."
I used this procedure to align my Delta Contractor's saw and it eliminated a burning problem I was having. Hope this helps.
Joey in Chesapeake

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