Adjusting Table Saw Trunion

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I have a Delta 10" Contractor Saw. I checked the blade with a dial gauge as described in the January issue of American Woodworker and discovered that the blade isn't parallel to the miter slot across it's length. The article said check your owner's manual for trunion adjustment. Well I looked in the manual and didn't see it. So how do you adjust the trunion?
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As posted by Bob S. many, many moons ago...
..............................Alignment Procedure..............................
Just thought I'd pass this along to those that have been having difficulty in aligning the blade parallel to the miter slot on these particular contractor saws. They may also apply to other Delta series saws as long as they have two tie-bars as part of the undercarriage.
I installed a new blade the other night and checked alignment using my TS Aligner Jr. and found that it was off by nearly 5 thousandths (front to rear - using same tooth on blade as ref). Decided to align and while doing so, managed to snap a trunnion bolt !
Well, the saw was due for a good cleaning and lube anyway, so I pulled out the whole undercarriage mechanism. It was a fairly simple process actually and not nearly as difficult as I was anticipating. Luckily, the bolt I snapped was left with a few threads exposed and was easily removed. There is no printed spec for these bolts in their literature so I called Delta tech support and finally got connected with a very knowledgeable and helpful individual (Ron as I recall).
He said a grade 5 bolt (same size) will do - but add lock washers to each of the four trunnion bolts as long as I have it apart. These will help maintain the alignment. There also is no spec for how tight these bolts should be but "good 'n snug and not over-tightened" is all that's needed he said. The trunnion bolts are not marked with a grade number and using a grade 5 means that I probably will never be able to snap the bolt again, it will most likely strip out the threads in the base before it breaks. So a word of caution - tight enough is one turn before it strips or snaps - wherever that is !
Considering that I was using a 6" long 1/2" box wrench and was not leaning on it when it snapped, the original bolts are definitely not grade 5.
Now for the interesting part. Delta faxed me a two sheet procedure that describes how to do this alignment. It's called "Blade Alignment Instructions for Original Contractors-Type Saws (when the saw has two Tie-Bars)". Pages are marked CS07 and CS07a and are not in the manual. I've included the instructions below but since binaries are not appreciated in this ng, I didn't scan the diagram.
Here's the procedure (minus diagram) as faxed to me: (unplug the saw first)
I've added a note or two to help which are denoted by (My note....).
.......................................Delta Procedures......................................
Initial Measurement:
1. Raise the sawblade to it's maximum height and mark one tooth, at the front of the blade as a reference. 2. Using a combination square, measure from the left edge of the right-hand miter gauge slot to the sawblade tooth that was marked in step 1 (Note this measurement). Then rotate the blade to the rear and measure from the same marked tooth to the miter slot. (Note this measurement).
IF the two measurements are NOT the same, proceed with step 3.
Note: refer to parts diagram on the following page for part locations.
(My note...this is the step I never knew had to be done, nor have I ever heard anyone mention it before.)
3. Remove the sawblade. (Remember, it is still at it's maximum height) 4. Place a flat plate (or similar flat object) on top of the two tie-bars. (The size of the plate should be at least 6" by 8", and the flatter the better). Depress one corner of the plate and if it rocks, the tie-bars are not parallel. This must be corrected as it will affect the alignment of the blade.
To make the Tie-Bars parallel: 5. Loosen the tie-bar locknuts (2ea. ref #245) located at the rear of the saw. 6. Grasp the motor bracket (ref #244) and move it left and/or right. Check the rocking of the flat plate and when it can no longer rock, the tie-bars are parallel...re-tighten the locknuts.
Aligning the saw undercarriage: 7. Remove the flat plate and re-install the sawblade. 8. Loosen the front trunnion bolts (2ea. ref #207) and the rear trunnion bolts (2ea. ref #243). 9. Move the entire undercarriage around while measuring as in step 2. 10. When the two measurements are the same, re-tighten the front two trunnion bolts (ref #207). 11. Before tightening the rear trunnion bolts, push forward on the rear trunnion bracket to allow the undercarriage to snugly fit between the two trunnions. 12. Re-check the blade to miter slot measurement and if they are still equal, re-tighten the rear trunnion bolts (ref #243). 13. If the blade to miter slot measurements have changed, repeat steps 8 thru 12.
.........................................End of Delta Procedures..........................
Without a diagram to look at this may be confusing but I suspect most of us never thought about the tie-bar alignment steps 5 & 6. If these are not parallel to each other then you can tap / hammer / move / and swear at it until the cows come home and it will never align correctly. Move the blade (up / down) then recheck alignment and you will find that you're out of alignment again ! You must keep the trunnion brackets tight to the rest of the mechanism.
I'm off to find some grade 5 bolts, lockwashers and a flat plate (glass maybe if I can't find a steel plate of some sort). I'll be reassembling and aligning tonight. If I find a better or easier way, I'll make a follow-up post and let you know what I did.
If you try to contact Delta tech support, (800) 438-2486 you'll most likely get a busy signal like I did for two days. Finally contacted HQ at (901) 668-8600 and they paged tech support for me and he was on the line in less than a minute. Course I was nice to the sweet young thing that answered the call, told her I'd been trying for two days and could she help - sure 'nuff !
I'll ding Delta for not including these procedures in the manual or at least posting them on their web site but tech support (Ron) was very helpful and friendly. He also gave me a few tips on how to adjust the blade height (worm-gear) mechanism since mine is a bit to tight when raising/lowering the blade.
The worm-gear is pinned to a shaft that goes thru another guide-shaft that has an off-center hole bored thru it. By loosening the nut near the worm-gear end, the shaft (with the off-center bore) can be rotated which adjusts the gear meshing clearance between the worm-gear and the gear-height mechanism. Confusing explanation but when you look at the mechanism, it will be clear to you.
Hope all the above is useful to someone and provides a better explanation on why we're having problems when making the blade to miter slot adjustment.
Bob S.
.....................Follow-Up.............................................. ....................
Said I would follow-up if I had anything more to add to my original post.
Just finished aligning the saw - the Delta procedures work as advertised - follow them exactly.
I know I'm being a bit anal over 5 thousandths but it was more of a curiosity of "why" it couldn't be adjusted out. No matter what I had done previously, it would come out close but never dead-on. Was it me, or just the machining tolerance ?
The problem was the adjustment of the tie-bars not being parallel. I used an 8" sanding disk (minus the sanding paper of course) as the flat plate they want you to use in the alignment procedure - see original post above. The lock nuts on the tie-bars are 15/16th's and they sure are on there tight. Had to use an 18" strong-arm bar to break them loose. Did exactly as the procedure called for and the alignment came out dead-on. Surprised the hell out of me too !
Now when you do the alignment (blade parallel to miter slot), you truly can loosen all 4 trunnion bolts (leave just slightly snug) and move the undercarriage around to make the adjustment. No more 2x4's as levers and whacking the hell out of the undercarriage to coax it into alignment. Simply tap (rubber mallet or use your fist if you like pain) the undercarriage and when front and back measurements are equal, snug 'em up good but don't over do it (as I did which has lead to this whole diatribe).
Ran the blade up and down, changed blade angle, made some saw dust and remeasured - still dead-on ! Never even came close to getting repeatable measurements before this, so I'm a real happy camper.
May as well align the fence to the miter slot while you're at it too. I have the TS Aligner so it's easy and accurate but the procedure in the manual works well also.
Will it improve my cuts any - Yes ! Ripped a piece of maple and no burn marks at the end anymore. Could be the new Freud blade but I tend to think it was the alignment that made the difference.
Only addition to the procedure I would make is to be sure the blade is at 90 deg to the table when doing the alignment which isn't stated in their procedures.
I did make a slight modification to the front trunnion bolts that you may be interested in doing to make life easier. If you ever tried loosening / tightening the front trunnion bolts then you know how difficult it can be to get to them - not to mention the skinned knuckles.
While I was at the nut's and bolts place looking for a replacement bolt for the one I snapped, I came across a bin of couplers, 2" long which accept 5/16" thread.
Idea came to mind. Why not get a short section of threaded rod (5/16th's) and two couplers and make "extended stud bolts" for the front trunnion ? Bought a section of threaded rod, some inside star-washers and some flat washers.
I cut two sections of the threaded rod 2 5/8" long to for the studs. I wanted the threaded rod to go into the table as far as possible (5/8") and 2" into the coupler to help stiffen the whole thing.
If you have the entire undercarriage out as I did, you need to put the undercarriage in-place first, then insert the stud bolts (threaded rod sections). If not, then simply replace the front bolts one at a time with the "extended studs". Put a flat washer and a star washer on the stud and run the couplers on up till they're good 'n snug.
Now it's a simple matter to use an open-end 1/2" wrench to get at those front trunnion bolts. No more fiddling with a socket and an extension and finding the bolt heads. You can now see them and get to them easily. Delta - ya listening ?
I was initially worried that the right front coupler would interfere with the blade tilt mechanism by using a 2" long coupler, there is still plenty of clearance and clears the trunnion by a good 1/2" or so when the blade is tilted the full 45 deg. The left coupler - no problems on clearance.
As I mentioned in the original post, my blade height adjustment was a bit to tight compared to other saws I've tried. Adusted the "off-center" shaft about 1/8th of a turn and that blade now goes up and down real nice and smoothe. You'll know when the adjustment is right cause it "just feels right". You don't want it to loose or there will be to much slack in the gear mesh - just play with it a bit and you'll know what I mean about feeling right.
So ends the story... and on a happy note too. Now I can get back to making sawdust and stop playing mechanic. Have to make 3 double-hung windows for my shed (the place where my lathe is going to be....8>)
G'night all,
Bob S.
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Thanks,
Bob S.

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Ok, what are Tie Bars??
Unisaw A100 wrote:

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"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message

Those two bars that tie the motor mount to trunnion.
http://www.acetoolrepair.com/DeltaHtml/TableSaws/CS4L.htm Number 143
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tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:

Go here.
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?idV3
Go to the third picture.
See the rusted round horizontal thingie (tm Claire, age 10) about two thirds up the picture?
That's one. The other is paired up opposite hand from it (behind it in the picture). That's the back bone of the contractor's saw undercarriage.
UA100, who continues to fight the good fight that the cabinet saw's cabinet hung trunnions are inferior to the contractor's saw's table hung trunnions...
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wrote:

that's a funny stance for a guy with a name like unisawa100....
so how do you figure? cabinet saw trunnions are generally beefier, easier to adjust and don't rely on gravity to tension the belt, for a few things. what is it that you see in a contractor's saw that looks better?
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Hmm. I have a Rockwell 34-300 10" Tilting Arbor Saw (from the fifties?) I don't see any Tie Bars.
I have some questions.
Is there any different procedure for this type of saw? Is it written up anywhere?
Will the PALS add-on be compatible? (I realise there is not uniform agreement on the usefullness).
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

That's onna 'count of it's a direct drive. In lieu of the tie bars you've got a motor hung there.

The procedure is the same as long as and up to the part where you loosen four cap screws, adjust and re-tighten the four cap screws. Beyond that what Bob S. has written (tie bars) won't be of much use to you. That is not to say that the twisting could be an issue with your saw, just that the fix isn't the same.

Kinda not sure. Technically you have table hung trunnions and technically the PALS work with table hung trunnions. I suspect a call to PALS would be in order but I would not expect much as I doubt they have gone as far as tracking down a 34-300 to check.
As for the vintage of the saw, I'm guessing something closer to the mid-70's/early 80's otherwise it would say Delta somewheres on it.
UA100
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[snip]
Thanks!

It says "Rockwell/Delta" does on the metal strip running under the brade raising/tilting dial. Everywhere else it says "Rockwell" Pittsburgh, PA.
Serial # EB-4410, Model 34-300
I called Delta, but they are closed for the weekend.
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Ahhh! Ya didn't mention that.

1968 born on date per the serial number.

As they should be.
UA100
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I went to the local Woodcraft store, and checked it out. It turns out the older Rockwell/Delta's have a heavier trunion bolt, so the Delta PALS won't work. However, the Craftsman version has the right size bolts, so I'll give that a try.
BTW Woodcraft is having a special 10% sale coming up (Feb 24th?). I asked the exact date, and they said it was coming up, but for me the owner said he'd give it to me starting today. So I spent money.
See my other posting for info on the Kreg Miter Gauge
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My Rockwell/Delta 34-300 10" Tilting Arbor saw (made in 1968, SN# EB-44410) has recently become louder. I decided to give it a tune up, and check things out.
For reference, the parts diagram can be seen here: http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Parts%20Lists/20021115200000_CS4F.pdf or perhaps http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Parts%20Lists/20021115200000_CS4G.pdf
Mu owner's manual matches G.
My saw has a small toothed belt going from the motor to the arbor above it. When I run the saw without the belt, it whines. When I attach the belt to the arbor bearing, there is a louder rougher noise.
So I think the Arbor Bearing is shot (Part 175 or 176 in the diagram).
I can remove the motor. Do I just get a wooden rod and hit the backside of the bearing (I see a circular depression on the motor mount side.) In other words, do I push it out, or pull it out?
I have some run-out when measuring the Arbor Pulley Flange. It's seen a lot of action, with dings, etc. I sanded the surface a little, and that helped. But I'm still getting 0.005" run-out.
I'm considering holding some fine sandpaper against it while it's running. Perhaps the bearing is affecting this, and I should hold off until I get that resolved.
I'll call up Delta Monday. Anything else I can try? I still have to locate a machine shop to true the Arbor Pulley Flange.
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Well, after talking to tech support, I tried disconnecting the belt from the arbor, and attached a blade, and spun it. A definite rattling sound. Dang. And I just bought $300+ worth of upgrades for my old saw. (Kreg Miter, DP FaskTrak, stops, etc.)
It's got a nice cast iron top w/wings, motor. Sniff. I'm gonna have to dig a big hole.
_____ _____ < `/ | > ( | _ _ | | |_) | |_) | | | \ | | | | | ______.______%_| |__________ _____ _/ \| | | Rockwell/Delta 34-300 < |_____.-._________ ____/|___________| | * 1968- | | + 2005 | | | | | | _ < |__/ | / `--. | %| |% |/.%%| -< @%%% `\%`@| v |@@%@%% - mfj .%%%@@@|% | % @@@%%@%%%% _.%%%%%%@@@@@@%%_/%\_%@@%%@@@@@@@%%%%%%
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Why can't you just replace bearings?
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I asked if the bearing could be replaced. The tech support said the bearing is part of the arbor. They made a "lifetime supply" of this special part which ran out in mid-1980's.
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Ok, thought it might be worth asking--sometimes you're stuck w/ a bad design... :(
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http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Parts%20Lists/20021115200000_CS4F.pdf
I am confused. The parts diagram lists a bearing. You should be able to remove the old bearing for a part number or to measure it and talk to a bearing store. It is listed as a ball bearing so it should be replaceable. Never mind, I see what you are talking about. I still wonder if that can be fixed somehow. It could be fixed if you drive by my basement and buy my Delta contractors saw.

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I haven't given up yet. Delta gave me phone numbers of independants that might have parts. I will also try to remove the arbor and see if some part can be replaced. But I'm preparing emotionally for the worst.
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

From the diagram I can't tell what would be totally unrepairable if it is just a bearing failure...what part was it that Delta thought you needed that is no longer available? Or were they going to sell the whole armature assembly?
Might have to get some help pressing the bearing off the shaft but assuming one could find an equivalent bearing (good/bad probability depending on how old and unique it really was) I'd think it at least possible as long as the shafts are still ok. At the point of rebuilding the armature shaft the cost may become prohibitive...
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