Accountants as engineers - Ppppfffftt''

[snip]The Saturns were $3000 cheaper for the same equipment and trim

We did that with the Taurus. Bought the Toyota Camry. j4

Reply to
jo4hn
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Closest to 10 years back I could come up with is the Nov./Dec. 1992 issue of Fine Woodworking. There's a Tool Crib ad for a 3hp Unisaw with Biesmeyer fence for $1629 *after* a $100 rebate. (page 24) My current Tool Crib catalog lists today's comparable Unisaw at $1850.

Hardly double and really surprising given the 12 year span.

Reply to
Fly-by-Night CC

"RonB" wrote in news:chY6d.3150$gm.3106@okepread07:

Interesting you should use that comparison. Volvos today are an excellent example of cost engineering (they're also overpriced crap). Volvo is living off the reputation they made 20+ years ago with the

240 series (and I wish I still had mine).

John

Reply to
John McCoy

jo4hn responds:

And I am convinced the U.S. manufacturers, at least the German owned one, are returning to the '70s. I bought a new Dodge Stratus in 2000. POS is a polite word and s*****ad is a polite description of the dealer. All smiles, no help. It's a real joy to discover that a high speed whistle--60 mph up--is a fact of life, something to do the with the transmission, and cannot be corrected. Surging on fill-up? They can't replicate the problem. Why? They didn't fill the car up, even though I five times told them I'd pop for the gas. Thieves in the garage? My wife has a bad habit of leaving cash for gas and tolls in the console. First clip was $17. Driver's door is now out of alignment, sometimes has to be shouldered heavily out of the way. My wife gets to climb over the console when it happens. I ain't climbing no damned console to get out of an unwrecked vehicle, so it opens. Oddly enough, it then works fine for six or seven months. Passenger rear door, seldom used (dog normally rides on that side, so we let her in and out from the outside), won't open from the inside.

And the beat goes on.

My last Chrysler product, except maybe for a pick-up.

Charlie Self "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." John Quincy Adams

Reply to
Charlie Self

Let's take an example near and dear to our hearts. The Stanley Works.

Plane quality became lower and lower as Stanley pushed into the mass market. Many lines discontinued. Finally stopped domestic production entirely with only a limited product line continued from England.

Still a market for quality planes, so some time later a small start-up (L-N) began to fill the niche. Now there is competition in the niche with LV also producing quality planes (and undercutting the price of the L-N).

If Delta does go the way of Stanley, someone else will step up to fill the niche (Powermatic, General, HotdogSuperSawsLtdIncLLP.).

And there are the international alternatives[*] (clifton, ece, et. al.)

scott

[*] Yes, LV is also an 'international alternative'.
Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Leon, I too work in the automotive industry. Our company operates Honda, Acura, Chevrolet and Saturn dealerships.

Bad cars (and other products) are made by all companies. Hondas blew headgaskets like crazy, Saturns were noisy and ate alternators and batteries, Acura transmissions were junk and so on and so on. What matters to me is how the manufacturer handled the problems. Honda/Acura stepped up and fixed all of them - no questions. Saturn fixed their issues with a little pushing, Chevrolet relies on the dealer to decide if they should help and to what extent.

Bad companies are the ones that die. Good companies, step up and take care of issues and subsequently improve their products. That is until they are swallowed-up by larger companies.

Woodworkers are in somewhat a different class. They buy cheap crap all the time and justify it by saying "It works OK for me" or "I don't use one enough to warrant a quality one". I am a tool snob. Not because I love spending tons of money, but because I want my tools to work right when I need them. OTOH, I do own some Jet and some import Delta tools. However, I do buy professional quality when it counts.

My (long and windy) point is, Wal-mart, Harbor Freight, Grizzly and the like will continue to flourish because we do not want to pay for real quality and are willing to settle for less. Quality companies like Lee Valley, Lie-Nielsen, Leigh, Snap-On, Miller Electric, Wilton and others will also have a market until they venture down the "cheaper is always better" road. Are you listening Robin?

Dave

Note to Robin, I looked high and low to replace a special crowbar (that was stolen) and now I see you have them. They are without a doubt, the best of the best. They have no peer. You call it the renovator's bar. I searched for the name on the bar, TOVE, and it did not show up on your site. You should add TOVE somewhere on the page so more people might find them on your site.

Reply to
TeamCasa

Well said.

Dave

Reply to
TeamCasa

So does SWMBO ... one neighbor has a Lexus and you would swear you were riding in the same car.

Reply to
Swingman

My nephew bought his first new vehicle, a Dodge PU about 7 years ago. He had to replace it and chose Dodge again. That one lasted about 2 years. Replaced it with another Dodge. 18 months later he had to replace that one. GMC this time. Other than regular eminence he has not had any problems in

80,000 + miles pulling a fifth wheel with a Bobcat loaded on it a lot of the time. Strongly, My wife works with a lady that owns a Dodge PU. Used light duty. This is their third and they have had AC problems with all three. She said no more.
Reply to
Leon

"TeamCasa" wrote in news:415c7593$1 snipped-for-privacy@Usenet.com:

The crowbar I have works all too well, with regard to purchasing Robin's products, thank you very much.

Patriarch

Reply to
patriarch

I've got an '01 Dodge 1500 RAM extended cab ... even though it has an excess of plastic on it, and is not that highly rated by consumer advocates from what I can gather, the only other pick-up I've liked as much was a 3/4 ton GMC I bought new in '78.

AAMOF, my wife would rather travel in it than in her Camry ... so long as she doesn't have to pay for the gas.

Reply to
Swingman

Our sister conmanies sold Honda from the early years when you could also sell motorcycles in the same dealership, Buick, Mazda. GMC, Isuzu and Oldsmobile. Having been on the receiving end of customer complaints with 4 of thise product lines, I got the least complaints percentage wise from the Japanese car owners.

I am not familiar with Honds's blowing head gaskets but I bet it was not anymore often than the Oldsmobile Diesel engines and the Chevrolet Vega engines. :~)

What matters to me is how the manufacturer handled the problems.

True. I also had to deal with the Oldsmobile factory service reps. What an arrogent bunch they were. Our dealership won service awards from Oldsmobile and they would send us their problem customers after the other Olds dealers failed to properly repair the cars. We would do the warranty work on those cars and the rep would kick back the claims because we were replacing too many parts when compared to the other 4 delaerships. Maybe we were replacing too many parts but the cars were being properly repaired and the customers stayed with us.

Acura transmissions were junk and so on and so on. Honda/Acura stepped up and fixed all of them - no questions.

My wife and I had a 90 Integra automaticand put more miles on it than any other vehicle. We replaced it simply because my wife wanted an new car 10 years later.

Saturn fixed their issues with a

Reply to
Leon

I wish that somebody besides Nissan made a full size four door heavy-duty pickup. I'm stuck with Dodge, Ford or Chevy, and the way I abuse trucks, they don't last long. I'd buy the Nissan except that it's so gawdawful butt-ugly it makes me ill, and would be embarrassing to drive.

Jon E

Reply to
Jon Endres, PE

"Jon Endres, PE" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.com...

After checking with four mechanics I bought the Chevy 2500HD with the diesel engine and Allison transmission. 24,000 miles with not a single problem.

Bob

Reply to
Bob Schmall

"Jon Endres, PE" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.com...

My Nephew owns a landscape business and is very tough on his trucks. He hauls yards of material and tractors on goose necks, not lawn equipment, and now swears by GMC after going through 3 Dodges. IIRC the Toyota full size is suppose to actually become full size very soon.

Reply to
Leon

Leon responds:

I bought a used '87 in '88 and added 165,000 miles to the 33,000 on the clock. Sold it last year, to me current regret. But it did have compressor problems. I replaced three and decided I didn't want the frigging AC that badly, so did without it. Vent windows are a big help. I have to wonder who specs those POS compressors. Truck otherwise needed a water pump in the years I owned it (normal repairs, one set of brakes, one rotor turning, tires, exhaust system--it was OK but the catalytic convertor plugged and blew an exhaust gasket at 144,000 miles).

Charlie Self "Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Reply to
Charlie Self

Had an spanking new '83 F150 with the 4.9L inline 6. It got 22-23 MPG on the highway. Drove it 177,000 miles in 15 years. Had one rear axle seal replaced and a clutch in all that time. Never had to add oil between changes and it alway passed the emissions tests with flying colors. I'd still be driving it if it hadn't been stolen outa my driveway. Replaced it with a used '87 F150 5.0L V8 with 112,000 on it. Now has about

150,000, with only front brakes replaced. This one only gets about 15 MPG :-(

-Doug

Reply to
Doug Winterburn

Where you live, AC is probably not so important. Down here in Houston you would gladly give up the steering wheel in order to have the AC. I think the American car companies are going cheap in all the hang on equipment. As I stated in another post our company sold thousands of alternators, starters, and Compressors each month and only for GM vehicles. That was a big profit center for us.

I recall back in the 70's GM had the old Frigidaire A6 Axial compressors. IIRC Continental used these compressors also. They were long and narrow and could be easily rebuilt. Now days that stuff is so cheap it is cheaper to replace than to repair. It becomes a vicious cycle.

Reply to
Leon

The Unisaw has doubled in price over the last year?

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

Or are they really cutting costs and sacrificing quality to keep the cost down? mahalo, jo4hn

Reply to
jo4hn

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