A little bit OT

[Stoutman]

I would get a small truck and buy a trailer that you can tow whenever you need to make a lumber pick up. That's the route I went. Very happy!

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

I've been pretty satisfied with my 97 F-150 (I've got 93k miles on it now and have had no major problems).

That said, I'm going to be looking at Toyota Tundra next time (hopefully that's still about 10 more years away). While I haven't had any major problems with the Ford, I haven't been impressed with the newer models.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Larry W]

Just FYI, the Sprinter is also available through Freightliner, another US company that Daimler bought a few years ago. In fact, it was available as a Freightliner a year or 2 before Dodge started selling them. The only differences are a few cosmetic items.

[Leon]

Typically used vehicle is a bigger risk for the lender. It's kinda surprising that you got a good rate from you credit union, but then again maybe not. I would imagine the typical bank would not be so good.

[Leon]

Obviously many people like Ford trucks. There are simply better choices out there these days. As for the trade deficit, in recent history the only time that the US had a trade surplus was when the US was in the middle of the great depression. Many economists agree, it is better to owe than to be owed.

[B A R R Y]

The '07 is so full-sized that Toyota dealers were required to get at least one new lift in the service bays before they could have any to sell. Seriously!

I've loved my Tacomas, which were built in Fremont, CA in a former GM plant that also builds the Pontiac Vibe:

I think I'd give the new Tundra a year for beta testing, but I'll offer an anecdotal side story about why Toyota seems to be gaining market share:

I bought an early 2005 Tacoma, three months into the redesigned model's production. The early production '05's had three notable defects, a cowl water leak, cab mounts that are too short, and noisy rear springs. Mine was late enough to miss the leak, but it had the cab mounts and noisy springs. The cab mounts created a condition where it sounded like someone was kicking the floor of the cab when I went over potholed roads.

I brought it it for the "kick noise"... This was actually a pretty minor noise that lots of people might say, "It's a pickup, turn up the radio", etc... What did I get? No games, no "they all do it" (which they did! ), just an appointment to fix it _right_. The repair, a 4-6 hour procedure, involved jacking the cab off the frame to replace all six cab mounts. When I picked it up, I mentioned the squeaky rear springs in passing. The service manager himself walked outside, sprayed some aerosol lube on them, walked me back into the dealership, and ordered the replacement springs. In about 4 days, the springs arrived and I had a repair appointment.

Never did I do anything more than ask about the problem! No bitching, no threatening to call "corporate", and no hard feelings. Both times I got service surveys from Toyota, and I couldn't give them enough praise. This was the first time I'd ever dealt with the dealership, who also sold it to me for a very fair price with no games or BS. All three of the issues were fixed on future trucks with running engineering changes on the line. The affected serial numbers and build dates are clearly noted on the pay-access Toyota technical web site. Every body screws up sometime. Reputable operations put the rubber to the road when they have to. I have no doubt that this is a manufacturer that clearly WANTS to be #1, and not just with a silly "mission statement"!

I HATE spending big bucks on cars, but two years later, I don't think I've ever enjoyed a more satisfying, perfect vehicle than this Tacoma. I can see me driving it even longer than the '85 that I put 305,000 miles on.

On the flip side, my 1999 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) had the identical rear brake slave cylinder issues as my 1989 Wrangler (YJ)!

If anyone wants the Connecticut dealership's name, email me. I don't want to be accused of shilling.

[Leon]

Since this is easy money for the Dealer, most dealers jump at the chance of selling warranty work to the manufacturer.

[Frank Boettcher]

I researched every truck available before I bought mine (four weeks ago)

My criteria pushed me to a Toyota Tacoma DC prerunner. However, the full size truck I really liked was the new (not classic) Chevrolet or GMC extended cab, 5.3L iron block version. Great features, great warranty, great (comparitively speaking) fuel economy and plenty of tow and carrying capacity.

Now that the classics have been mostly cleared out, deals can be made on the new version.

Frank

[J T]

Sun, Mar 18, 2007, 10:22pm (EDT-1) .@. (Stoutman) wisely sayeth: I would get a small truck and buy a trailer that you can tow whenever you need to make a lumber pick up. =A0 That's the route I went. Very happy!

You betcha. You've gotta be a city boy if you've gotta ask what pickup to buy. My daily driver is a '78 El Camino, no way it'll hold a full sheet of plywood. No prob, when I buy plywood I have it sliced - if I need a full sheet, I'll either c*ck it in the bed, have one of my sons haul it, or have it delivered if need be. If I had to carry full sheets on a regular basis, I'd definitely get a trailer, 'cause there's no way the Elky is going. Ah, driving with the window down, Celtic music CD playing - but not so loud I can't hear that great exhaust sound, and an ice cream cone from the local Dairy Queen. Life cne be very good.

JOAT Custom philosophizing done. No job too small; must be indoor work, with no heavy lifting.

[Leon]

Agreed, I think most of the new trucks today are trying to appeal to the guy that wants to look macho. Chevrolet and GMC still have a relatively low tailgate, bed and bed sides. I went to the auto show in Houston in January and was turned off by many of the new full sized pick ups because they set so high that lifting anything over the side of the bed is almost out of the question and I am 6' tall.

Maybe, my son works for a Chevrolet dealer in Houston and is still receiving and putting into inventory the Old Style "2007" pick ups. I don't get it personally. Both new and old style are being manufactured as 07 models. The latest body style does not use the same front end suspension as what GM has used for decades. The latest having an automobile style McPherson Strut hopefully will hold up.

[B A R R Y]

I always thought so too, until I needed it on my Subaru and Jeeps.

[B A R R Y]

Remember the 2003 (or was it '04? ) F150?

[Leon]

If it is a legitimate complaint and not just an inherent trait the dealer gladly will go for warranty repairs. If the problem that you complain about is a design problem that is not really a problem other than something you don't like then you are pretty much stuck with the problem. Way back in the early 80's the Oldsmobile Cutlass G body had a wide AC register that was on the passenger side of the dash. Regardless of what fan speed the motor was set to you were not going to get more than a slight breeze out of it. We had tons of complaints and there was no fix other than a complete dash and air duct redesign.

[Lobby Dosser]

Bought a 68 Wagoneer from the factory in 70. 4WD, every option known to man and driven by one of the managers. Last Jeep I ever bought. If it had Only nickled and dimed me to death, I might have kept it longer.

[Frank Boettcher]

My local chevy dealer said that the "classics" stopped production in November. Don't know if that is true, your son could probably confirm. I checked regional inventory a month or so ago and most dealers were down to just a couple with no more coming in.

I guess their inventory position was too high to write off the "classic" parts inventory, or maybe they did not think they could fill the pipeline with the new model fast enough. It was confusing when I tried to evaluate trucks.

I was after fuel economy with reasonable tow and carry capacity and the Tacoma, configured as I bought it, hit that button perfectly. And based on early results, I'm getting better than expected fuel economy. But I think the new GM is a clear winner in the full size category.

Frank

[B A R R Y]

My Subie, which is normally a reliable brand, had clutch issues from day one (literally). I sold the car @ 39,000 with no satisfaction from the warranty. Two dealers refused to disassemble the clutch unless I agreed to pay if Subaru denied the warranty claim.

[Leon]

You never know. I thought the old style was done also but my son receives the vehicle inventory by computer and told me that the Classics were still being built. Chevrolet still shows the Classic being available on their web site with the ability to build and price on online.

down a little to get to the 2007 Classic.

GMC still offers the Sierra Classic also.

Well they have to offer the parts for 10 years after the model is discontinued.

It was confusing when I

My next truck will be probably be a Toyota if my son is not still working for the Chevrolet dealer when I buy again. Although I have a GM credit card and I accrue $3500 off my best deal with the dealer every 7 years. I bought my current truck that way. It's nice to make your best deal and then have them take $3500 off of that.

[Frank Boettcher]

Interesting. I asked if I could order one back in January and was told that I could only get an in stock unit, it was out of production since novemeber. I checked local dealer(s) stock for a month or so and there were no new arrivals.

I used the web site to configure, but was told ordering was impossible on the classics.

[Leon]

And the car companies wonder why they are loosing out to the Japanese.

[Bill in Detroit]

Yeah ... it's really confusing how that could be. Other than totally misreading the market (hey guys ... high gas prices are here to STAY), and off-shoring the lions share of their production, they seem to be doing everything right.

Bah humbug ... I shop the international market just like they do. Last new car I had that was anything to write home about was my Geo Metro. Still have it in the garage.

Bill