A confirmation of two revelations.

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Building materials are increasing in price.
Wider and longer panels surely cost more.
A few weeks ago someone posted an observation that plywood was no longer 4'x 8'.
I think a lot of us may have confirmed otherwise and or thought he may have confused the size of other sheet goods like MDF.
Anyway yesterday I bought 3 sheets of paint grade maple veneer plywood for the top cabinets that I am building for my wife's quilting studio.
Supposedly these are domestic and they appear to be the common 5 thicker inner plys and the two thin outer veneer plys.
All three measure 48-1/2" x 96-1/2".
No more going straight to a 16" OC stud wall if picture frame paneling a room.
But in my case the larger dimensions are welcome, no more worrying about a crappy factory edge.
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On 08/08/2015 3:28 PM, Leon wrote: ...

Mayhaps they did, but they were wrong for construction ply -- I posted a link to at least one manufactuer's site that refutes the contention...altho iirc it wasn't actually that the size wasn't 4x8 but that the spec was metric rather than English units.

...
Construction sheet goods and cabinet-grade have always had differing measurement criteria; it's not at all unusual that the cabinet panel has sufficient overage to rip to a finished 2-ft width, but it's also much more a manufacturer-specific dimension rather than an industry standard as for construction material.
--


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On 8/8/2015 4:10 PM, dpb wrote:

Actually after 30+ years of cutting cabinet quality panels and literally cutting hundreds, I have never ever seen a cabinet quality panel any other size but 4x8. So at least not all have ever been larger.
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I have, and have purchased 48.5 and 96.5 I also purchase nominal width for construction purpose. Not only for edge cuts, rips, but as dph say's for 2' width. john
"Leon" wrote in message
On 8/8/2015 4:10 PM, dpb wrote:

Actually after 30+ years of cutting cabinet quality panels and literally cutting hundreds, I have never ever seen a cabinet quality panel any other size but 4x8. So at least not all have ever been larger.
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On 08/08/2015 10:00 PM, Leon wrote:

...

...

...

....
That, I think, is what I just said... :)
It is manufacturer-specific, but there are and always has been much more available in the cabinet panels than for just construction ply -- as just one example, see the product availability list from Atlantic Plywood <www.atlanticplywood.com> or Baird Brothers <www.bairdbrothers.com>
If you've always just shopped at a local distributor or particularly one of the box stores, it's not surprising that simply 48x96 is all you've seen, however; needs must first know it is available so can ask for it specifically or just happen to find it as you apparently did this time...
I learned of it many years ago from an old grouchy master cabinet maker/reproduction furniture builder in Lynchburg, VA, when was a very young pup first delving into woodworking as a sideline/hobby and wandered into his shop looking for some specialty hardware I'd been told he used occasionally. He ended up running me out of his shop that day as I inadvertently upset him by him thinking I was expecting "a deal" but he did order the hinges and when I went to get them I managed to repair the rift...I learned more from him in a few months of Saturday mornings spent in his shop as an forced-myself-upon-him "apprentice" than could begin to enumerate...
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On 8/9/2015 12:02 PM, dpb wrote:

I buy from a trades specific supplier. they have their own mill so that make their own S4S lumber and moldings. They stock an indoor inventory of plywood that would probably fill half of an average sized Home Depot store. Literally tens of thousands of sheets. I have been buying from them since about 1989. They do offer about 2~3 grades of any particular species of plywood in domestic and import. Oddly I find that some of the stuff is precisely 3/4" thick.

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On 08/09/2015 12:23 PM, Leon wrote:

...[big snip for brevity re: oversize cabinet ply]...

Again, the thickness is also not surprising as again, cabinet ply is a whole different animal than construction material and there's a market for the specific product despite cost. On the purchasing location, the fact is that you were still unaware of the oversize panels after all that time so what I said before is still true..."if you don't know to ask..." then you can continue to think that the nominal is all there is irrespective of how long it's been or where you're shopping. Again, this isn't intended at all as personal; simply that there has been a different product available all along and that there are both and that it is particularly wide variety of stuff in that market given that it isn't as much a mass-market target to a standard overall sheet dimension as in the construction ply business and where a few mils shaved off a sheet adds up to a much more sizable materials saving on the production side owing simply to volume produced in comparison.
At the time of which I was speaking of in Lynchburg (over 40 yr ago now), there was a small mill up in the mountains along the New River that had a hardwood veneer and ply mill operating as well as solid lumber. Back then the furniture business was rife all over N Carolina and particularly SW VA; the updated Lane facility in Alta Vista was almost brand new and employed several thousand alone and was just down the road 30 miles along with a bunch of other smaller manufacturers in the general Piedmont area...
<http://www.vahistorical.org/collections-and-resources/virginia-history-explorer/lane-cedar-chest
As the link outlines, their fate was no better than that of virtually all US manufacturers what with corporate takeovers and "anything for a buck" management.
But at the same time, there were a number of these (relatively) small mills supplying the local and area manufacturers; most of which are also now either gone or vastly changed from what they were back then.
While he didn't cut for Lane or the other furniture mills, there was a one-man mill operation run by another old codger about as crusty as the aforementioned shop owner (but even older; he had to be 75 if he was a day when I first met him) whose prime target was timbers for the mines and ties for the railroads so he was cutting almost exclusively black locust and white oak. But, the cutters weren't always all _that_ exclusive in what they cut and if they had a good log in front of them, they would cut it so over the years he had accumulated quite a lot of cherry, walnut, old chestnut, etc., etc., as well. He would cut it and just stack it in sheds and sell it as he got a round tuit, the suppy of which was about as rare then as they are now. :)
I bought a lot of all the above at 10-cents a bf and if had had any sense (or any money as a newly-graduated kid w/ family and a mortgage) I'd have bought the lot on spec as an investment...I've often wondered who ended up with the gold mine when he finally passed as afaik he had no family.
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I guess had I actually wanted over sized panels I would have asked to see if they were available. A few weeks a go I bought/ asked for the same type product, paint grade. I received 48 x 96. This upgraded over sized panel this time were larger. And FWIW this upgraded panel in the past has been 48 x 96. Obviously plywood panels come oversized but I have never seen it and I have bought a lot of cabinet quality in the past 35 years.
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On 08/13/2015 8:37 AM, Leon wrote:

...another big snip...

It's certainly true that the amount produced at "half-over" is small compared to that for the nominal dimension so again I'm not surprised hadn't run into it. As my geezer story relates, I discovered it "way back when" by accident from the old codger in Lynchburg because he used it quite a lot for custom work. Here all I was trying to do was to emphasize that hardwood ply like hardwood lumber doesn't run by the same rules grading/sizing systems as does construction lumber or ply.
As can be seen if go thru the available product listings at some of the links I posted earlier, there are sheets available at a number of sizes and that altho the vast majority are the "standard" 4x8 the 48.5x96.5 is a reasonably common alternate, particularly in birch, maple and walnut as well as luaun and the like. Besides, there's the (probably more well known) 4x10 and (less so?) 5x10 and (particularly the Baltic birch and similar) 5x5 which more than likely is actually metric in both thickness and outer dimension being imported for the most part altho there is at least some 5x5 US-produced I believe still.
For a distributor rather than a manufacturer, what you get may be the luck of the draw as to what they happen to have or, perhaps, even, the person who pulls stock (or perhaps directs you to let you select specific sheets) is the new employee and doesn't know themselves that that stack is the plus-half one! :) And certainly it's close enough that one can't tell just by a glance if they let you just go choose so that if you're not expecting and don't actually put a tape on it you'd never know 'til you got home...
In the small market here, I suspect if I went and asked for it even the guys behind the counter wouldn't have a clue(*) they could even order it; and it's possible their supply chain is so limited thru their connection as a Mead Lumber outlet they can't, I haven't tried to see. With a large distributorship such as you have, it's not surprising to me they have both available altho again I'd not be surprised if there were a lack of knowledge by the less-experienced staff there, even, as far as any given sale unless you do have a single point of contact.
(*) It's so bad here, several years ago I asked if they had any fir in stock and the kid working behind the order counter didn't even know what it is and the "senior" guy who's been there since we moved back was only slightly more informed.
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Yeah, that's the way you really learn things and it's something our public education system has completely forgotten.
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On 8/9/2015 12:33 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

In this day and age one would more likely suspect the 4 x8 sheets to be shorter and narrower. LOL
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I was under the impression that larger sheets of this ply were a shop grade and used to rip, so that a person did not depend on a factory rip edge. john
"Leon" wrote in message
Building materials are increasing in price.
Wider and longer panels surely cost more.
A few weeks ago someone posted an observation that plywood was no longer 4'x 8'.
I think a lot of us may have confirmed otherwise and or thought he may have confused the size of other sheet goods like MDF.
Anyway yesterday I bought 3 sheets of paint grade maple veneer plywood for the top cabinets that I am building for my wife's quilting studio.
Supposedly these are domestic and they appear to be the common 5 thicker inner plys and the two thin outer veneer plys.
All three measure 48-1/2" x 96-1/2".
No more going straight to a 16" OC stud wall if picture frame paneling a room.
But in my case the larger dimensions are welcome, no more worrying about a crappy factory edge.
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Certainly makes sense and I welcome it but I have never witnessed it.
On 8/9/2015 8:42 AM, jloomis wrote:

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On 8/8/15 3:28 PM, Leon wrote:

Like you, I welcome to ability to correct crappy factory edges without losing dimensions. At a place I used to get plywood which went out of business (big surprise) some sheets would be longer or wider but only on one side making them slightly trapezoidal. This means you could no longer even count of the corners of plywood being square.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 8/9/2015 11:16 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

I have see that before, non square plywood. That stuff is crap. Its like buying S2S plywood. ;~)
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Sometimes factory edges can delaminate, especially if stored..... john
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
On 8/8/15 3:28 PM, Leon wrote:

Like you, I welcome to ability to correct crappy factory edges without losing dimensions. At a place I used to get plywood which went out of business (big surprise) some sheets would be longer or wider but only on one side making them slightly trapezoidal. This means you could no longer even count of the corners of plywood being square.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
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(Took me a while to remember to measure but...)
I just bought a couple of sheets of MDF and melamine. While they're certainly not "cabinet grade", that's what I'm using them for, more or less (shop "furniture"). They're all 49-1/16 x 97-1/16. It's kinda nice to not have to worry about the edges being a little bunged up.
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On 8/9/2015 7:55 PM, krw wrote:

It is nice. I have been buying the over sized wood by product panels for years. It is scarey though when you tell the optimization program to draw a cutting diagram and it shows 3, 15.75" wide panels just fitting the drawing. and then you cut and end up with about 7/8" waste left over when there should be 3/8".
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This is not intended for construction, but rather for cabinetwork. The extra dimension allows for the kerf(s) when you want to cut several pieces from one sheet.
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wrote in message

...and allow you to get rid of dinged up edges and still have enough material!
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